[BCAB] opening links in ie9 and jaws 12

Graham Page gpage at useit.plus.com
Tue Apr 19 16:33:37 BST 2011


Yes unfortunately we're back to the dark days when major pieces of
technology central to operating systems such as a new version of internet
explorer get released and most of the screenreaders are not ready for it.  I
think Window-eyes supports IE version 9 but that is about the only paid for
screenreader that does.  Is the option there, as it was in previous
versions, to roll back to version 8?  If it is, it may be best to apply this
until FS gets its house in order.

Regards

Graham

Graham Page
Mobile: 07753 607980
Fax:  0870 706 2773
Email: gpage at useit.plus.com
MSN: gabriel_mcbird at hotmail.com
Skype: gabriel_mcbird


-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk]
On Behalf Of Harding, Wally
Sent: 19 April 2011 14:40
To: Panagiotis Antonopoulos; BCAB Discussion List
Subject: Re: [BCAB] opening links in ie9 and jaws 12

As far as I am aware, jaws 12 doesn't support explorer 9 yet. I believe
we're waiting on an update from Freedom Scientific to make it
compatible. 

Wally Harding
RNIB Hi-Tech Support
 
-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk
[mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Panagiotis
Antonopoulos
Sent: 19 April 2011 15:05
To: BCAB Discussion List
Subject: [BCAB] opening links in ie9 and jaws 12

Hi all,
Many things appear to have changed in internet explorer 9. I have some 
difficulty opening links using ie9 and, just got, jaws 12. I tried lots
of 
combinations, enter and the like, do not seem to work, and I also found
a 
contrl-j command which appears more of a list rather than a direct
download 
or opening of links. I would be most grateful for some help on this.
                All the Best,
                Panagiotis

-----Original Message----- 
From: John Burling
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 1:32 PM
To: BCAB Discussion List
Subject: Re: [BCAB] Accessible PDF

This is precisely what worries me: that more and more organisations are
providing their electronic documents in PDF format only, and just
assuming/expecting/hoping that they'll be accessible to visually
impaired
customers. The text associated with the download link for a document
will
sometimes tell us optimistically that screenreaders can now read Adobe
PDF
documents, and it often provides a link to an accessibility resource
page on
the Adobe website which, even if it exists, is unlikely to be of any
help to
the ordinary vi person who just wants to read something there and then.

In my experience, if a document is not properly accessible, it's often
very
difficult to get this rectified. Witness the ongoing problem that I and
Richard Godfrey-McKay's brother are having with HSBC regarding our
MasterCard statements, or the 2011-12 benefit rates leaflet on the
direct.gov.uk website, or the many downloadable but inaccessible forms
on
the HMRC website.

Cheers.

John


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jack Garfinkel" <j.garfinkel at helpthehospices.org.uk>
To: "'BCAB Discussion List'" <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [BCAB] Accessible PDF


> Good point Dave - PDF is, for so many reasons, a horrible format.
>
> Its primary virtues are that it can be downloaded and read offline and

> that PDF readers are fairly ubiquitous. I'd like to see it eclipsed by

> regular web content as more devices are connected to the internet and
by 
> proper e-book formats as they become more popular. Sadly I think it's 
> probably going to be around for a while.
>
> Adobe's accessibility checker is a good jumping off point (especially
as 
> Dave pointed out for things like making sure a reading order is
assigned) 
> but won't help you make qualitative judgements like deciding if an
image 
> is 'content bearing' or just decorative. Also, it won't pick up on
things 
> like not putting row/column headers on tables or assigning entirely
the 
> wrong tag structure to a 'retro-fitted' PDF.
>
> It's not hard to find lists of PDF tags and their meanings, but it is 
> difficult to find examples of properly tagged content (especially on
how 
> to 'nest' tags). Pretty much the only way of getting to grips with it
is 
> ploughing through these and using Adobe's automatic conversion tools
on 
> Microsoft applications and reverse engineering them. Combine that with
a 
> strong background in HTML semantics and screen reader testing and you 
> *might* be ok...
>
> To add insult to injury, there are so many bells and whistles in
Acrobat 
> Reader that it's one of the biggest security risks on a Windows
system.
>
> As an aside - I've just run a quick test conversion from Libre Office
and 
> reading order and language were assigned but even in my test document
I 
> could see that the tagging semantics weren't 100% correct compared to 
> output from Word and HTML principles. Dave's core point, that ensuring

> accessibility on PDFs is inherently problematic, is solid.
>
> Sorry, appreciate that this has turned into a bit of an anti PDF rant!
>
> Jack
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk 
> [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Gunn, Dave
> Sent: 18 April 2011 17:50
> To: BCAB Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] Accessible PDF
>
> In addition to the great resources Jack highlighted I thought it might
> be useful to clarify, at present the only way to produce an accessible
> PDF is to manipulate the PDF properties in Adobe Acrobat.
>
> While there are a hundred and one ways to originate a PDF, none of
them
> will produce a PDF which passes Adobe's own detailed accessibility
"Full
> Test" in Acrobat. All creation methods (including conversion in Adobe
> Acrobat) require some rework to ensure reading order, alt text,
language
> etc are assigned properly.
>
> Our own advice on PDF suggests "To ensure accessibility it is good
> practice to also offer any PDF document in an alternative format such
as
> plain text or Word", basically because there is only one way to get it
> right, and so many ways to come unstuck.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Dave
>
> -------
> Dave Gunn
> Technical Manager, RNIB Centre for Accessible Information (CAI).
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk
> [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Jack Garfinkel
> Sent: 18 April 2011 17:00
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] Accessible PDF
>
> Hi Sam,
>
> I'm sighted so it goes without saying that my advice is no substitute
> for proper testing. With that proviso, I've given you an overview
below
> covering conversion from Word and retro-fitting an existing PDF. If
> your situation is different e.g. your source document is a PowerPoint
> presentation, let me know.
>
> Feel free to contact me off list if you want!
>
> Thanks,
> Jack Garfinkel
>
> Online Editor
>
> *Is PDF right for you?*
> If this is online content, a normal web page may serve you better in
> terms of accessibility if that's your primary concern. Consider your
> options
>
> *Converting from word*
> If you're starting with a word document, you're really asking is how
to
> produce an accessible Word document which is something I train
in-house
> staff on here.
>
> Web aim have good resources on using Word:
> http://webaim.org/techniques/word/
> Proper heading levels are the easy win, although there are more
> formatting subtleties once you've mastered the basics.
>
> Adobe also have their own document:
>
http://www.adobe.com/accessibility/products/acrobat/pdf/A9-accessible-pd
> f-from-word.pdf
>
> You also need to convert it in the "correct" way - this isn't hard
> though, just be aware that that all PDF 'printing' programs are
created
> equal.
>
> Web aim on converting using Word 2007 or 2010:
> http://webaim.org/techniques/acrobat/converting#word
>
> If you only have word 2003 and don't want to buy Adobe Acrobat, then
> Open Office (and presumably, the forked project Libre Office) is your
> best bet. It will open .doc files, and the PDFs look pretty good under
> the hood to me.
>
> Open office Wiki entry on exporting to PDF:
>
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOo3_User_Guides/
> Getting_Started/Exporting_to_PDF
>
>
> *Retro fitting an existing PDF*
> You need someone with Acrobat Professional who can manually tag the
> document to make it fully accessible. This assumes that the text in
> there is 'available' as text - generally it is though unless you're
> really unlucky. Even a scanned documents can usually have 'OCR' run on
> them, although results may be mixed.
>
> Adobe's documentation on their tagging semantics is pretty poor, but
> does follow HTML principles. I learned most of what I know by looking
at
> files converted from well formatted word documents and from a couple
of
> other online resources:
> -Adobe's overview of the 'accessibility repair workflow'
>
http://www.adobe.com/accessibility/products/acrobat/pdf/A9-pdf-access-re
> pair-workflow.pdf
> -Adobe's overview of PDF tags
>
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Acrobat/8.0/Professional/help.html?content=W
> S58a04a822e3e50102bd615109794195ff-7cd8.html
>
> If you've got a paid up version of Adobe Acrobat, there are other
> options - If you're lucky you might be able to export/convert to plain
> text which would allow access to the content even if not making the
> structure accessible.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk
> [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Howie, Sam
> Sent: 18 April 2011 11:25
> Subject: [BCAB] Accessible PDF
>
> Hi All
> Can anyone tell how I can make pdf files fully accessible to screen
> reader users? Are there are set guidelines
> Thanks
> Sam
>
>
> Glasgow - Proud Host City of the 2014 Commonwealth Games
>
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