[BCAB] opening links in ie9 and jaws 12

Graham Page gpage at useit.plus.com
Tue Apr 19 17:25:32 BST 2011


I looked for them and found them on a list relating to a late beta sometime
late 2010 I think.  I couldn't  find a more up to date list doing a quick
google search.  This confirms your point that work was clearly going on up
right up until the  actual release.

Regards

Graham

Graham Page
Mobile: 07753 607980
Fax:  0870 706 2773
Email: gpage at useit.plus.com
MSN: gabriel_mcbird at hotmail.com
Skype: gabriel_mcbird


-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk]
On Behalf Of George Bell
Sent: 19 April 2011 17:19
To: BCAB Discussion List
Subject: Re: [BCAB] opening links in ie9 and jaws 12

Hi Graham,

Dunno where you got those shortcut keys from?  Alt t = Tools and Alt +
h = Help on mine.

George. 

-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk
[mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Graham Page
Sent: 19 April 2011 17:09
To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [BCAB] opening links in ie9 and jaws 12

Hi George.

It is true that IE 9 does seem radically different.  more fixing
things that aren't necessarily broken though this happens a lot these
days, I must be getting old!

I do have some questions about Microsoft short cuts in general but to
keep things on topic I will refer to examples in internet explorer 9.
Why I wonder is the short cut key to get help alt L?  surely when you
want the help menu you are stuck and it should be alt h.  there is I
believe a tools menu but to get to it you press alt x.  Is the
internet explorer interface like the ribbon interface used in office
2007 and office 2010?  I am no great lover of this new interface,
mainly because of some fairly poor keyboard shortcut allocations but
if they really insist on using it then it should be a common interface
across all Microsoft applications.  Things are hard enough for new
computer users without them having to learn 2 user interfaces.
I do understand that freedom scientific has to put some effort in to
take the changes in the interface into account and isn't there some
changes that relate to the use of the document off screen model type
technology being replaced by something else?  I know window-eyes
claims to support IE 9 so it is a shame  that FS has not been a bit
quicker off the mark.

Regards

Graham

Regards

Graham
Graham Page
Mobile: 07753 607980
Fax:  0870 706 2773
Email: gpage at useit.plus.com
MSN: gabriel_mcbird at hotmail.com
Skype: gabriel_mcbird


-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk
[mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk]
On Behalf Of George Bell
Sent: 19 April 2011 16:48
To: BCAB Discussion List
Subject: Re: [BCAB] opening links in ie9 and jaws 12

In fairness to screen reader developers, IE9 was being modified right
up until the very last minute.

However, thankfully it can be removed, and will revert to the previous
version.

George. 

-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk
[mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Graham Page
Sent: 19 April 2011 16:34
To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [BCAB] opening links in ie9 and jaws 12

Yes unfortunately we're back to the dark days when major pieces of
technology central to operating systems such as a new version of
internet explorer get released and most of the screenreaders are not
ready for it.  I think Window-eyes supports IE version 9 but that is
about the only paid for screenreader that does.  Is the option there,
as it was in previous versions, to roll back to version 8?  If it is,
it may be best to apply this until FS gets its house in order.

Regards

Graham

Graham Page
Mobile: 07753 607980
Fax:  0870 706 2773
Email: gpage at useit.plus.com
MSN: gabriel_mcbird at hotmail.com
Skype: gabriel_mcbird


-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk
[mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk]
On Behalf Of Harding, Wally
Sent: 19 April 2011 14:40
To: Panagiotis Antonopoulos; BCAB Discussion List
Subject: Re: [BCAB] opening links in ie9 and jaws 12

As far as I am aware, jaws 12 doesn't support explorer 9 yet. I
believe we're waiting on an update from Freedom Scientific to make it
compatible. 

Wally Harding
RNIB Hi-Tech Support
 
-----Original Message-----
From: bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk
[mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Panagiotis
Antonopoulos
Sent: 19 April 2011 15:05
To: BCAB Discussion List
Subject: [BCAB] opening links in ie9 and jaws 12

Hi all,
Many things appear to have changed in internet explorer 9. I have some
difficulty opening links using ie9 and, just got, jaws 12. I tried
lots of combinations, enter and the like, do not seem to work, and I
also found a contrl-j command which appears more of a list rather than
a direct download or opening of links. I would be most grateful for
some help on this.
                All the Best,
                Panagiotis

-----Original Message-----
From: John Burling
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 1:32 PM
To: BCAB Discussion List
Subject: Re: [BCAB] Accessible PDF

This is precisely what worries me: that more and more organisations
are providing their electronic documents in PDF format only, and just
assuming/expecting/hoping that they'll be accessible to visually
impaired customers. The text associated with the download link for a
document will sometimes tell us optimistically that screenreaders can
now read Adobe PDF documents, and it often provides a link to an
accessibility resource page on the Adobe website which, even if it
exists, is unlikely to be of any help to the ordinary vi person who
just wants to read something there and then.

In my experience, if a document is not properly accessible, it's often
very difficult to get this rectified. Witness the ongoing problem that
I and Richard Godfrey-McKay's brother are having with HSBC regarding
our MasterCard statements, or the 2011-12 benefit rates leaflet on the
direct.gov.uk website, or the many downloadable but inaccessible forms
on the HMRC website.

Cheers.

John


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Garfinkel" <j.garfinkel at helpthehospices.org.uk>
To: "'BCAB Discussion List'" <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [BCAB] Accessible PDF


> Good point Dave - PDF is, for so many reasons, a horrible format.
>
> Its primary virtues are that it can be downloaded and read offline
and

> that PDF readers are fairly ubiquitous. I'd like to see it eclipsed
by

> regular web content as more devices are connected to the internet
and
by 
> proper e-book formats as they become more popular. Sadly I think
it's 
> probably going to be around for a while.
>
> Adobe's accessibility checker is a good jumping off point
(especially
as 
> Dave pointed out for things like making sure a reading order is
assigned) 
> but won't help you make qualitative judgements like deciding if an
image 
> is 'content bearing' or just decorative. Also, it won't pick up on
things 
> like not putting row/column headers on tables or assigning entirely
the 
> wrong tag structure to a 'retro-fitted' PDF.
>
> It's not hard to find lists of PDF tags and their meanings, but it
is 
> difficult to find examples of properly tagged content (especially on
how 
> to 'nest' tags). Pretty much the only way of getting to grips with
it
is 
> ploughing through these and using Adobe's automatic conversion tools
on 
> Microsoft applications and reverse engineering them. Combine that
with
a 
> strong background in HTML semantics and screen reader testing and
you 
> *might* be ok...
>
> To add insult to injury, there are so many bells and whistles in
Acrobat 
> Reader that it's one of the biggest security risks on a Windows
system.
>
> As an aside - I've just run a quick test conversion from Libre
Office
and 
> reading order and language were assigned but even in my test
document
I 
> could see that the tagging semantics weren't 100% correct compared
to 
> output from Word and HTML principles. Dave's core point, that
ensuring

> accessibility on PDFs is inherently problematic, is solid.
>
> Sorry, appreciate that this has turned into a bit of an anti PDF
rant!
>
> Jack
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk
> [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Gunn, Dave
> Sent: 18 April 2011 17:50
> To: BCAB Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] Accessible PDF
>
> In addition to the great resources Jack highlighted I thought it
might
> be useful to clarify, at present the only way to produce an
accessible
> PDF is to manipulate the PDF properties in Adobe Acrobat.
>
> While there are a hundred and one ways to originate a PDF, none of
them
> will produce a PDF which passes Adobe's own detailed accessibility
"Full
> Test" in Acrobat. All creation methods (including conversion in
Adobe
> Acrobat) require some rework to ensure reading order, alt text,
language
> etc are assigned properly.
>
> Our own advice on PDF suggests "To ensure accessibility it is good 
> practice to also offer any PDF document in an alternative format
such
as
> plain text or Word", basically because there is only one way to get
it
> right, and so many ways to come unstuck.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Dave
>
> -------
> Dave Gunn
> Technical Manager, RNIB Centre for Accessible Information (CAI).
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk
> [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Jack Garfinkel
> Sent: 18 April 2011 17:00
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] Accessible PDF
>
> Hi Sam,
>
> I'm sighted so it goes without saying that my advice is no
substitute
> for proper testing. With that proviso, I've given you an overview
below
> covering conversion from Word and retro-fitting an existing PDF. If 
> your situation is different e.g. your source document is a
PowerPoint
> presentation, let me know.
>
> Feel free to contact me off list if you want!
>
> Thanks,
> Jack Garfinkel
>
> Online Editor
>
> *Is PDF right for you?*
> If this is online content, a normal web page may serve you better in

> terms of accessibility if that's your primary concern. Consider your

> options
>
> *Converting from word*
> If you're starting with a word document, you're really asking is how
to
> produce an accessible Word document which is something I train
in-house
> staff on here.
>
> Web aim have good resources on using Word:
> http://webaim.org/techniques/word/
> Proper heading levels are the easy win, although there are more 
> formatting subtleties once you've mastered the basics.
>
> Adobe also have their own document:
>
http://www.adobe.com/accessibility/products/acrobat/pdf/A9-accessible-
pd
> f-from-word.pdf
>
> You also need to convert it in the "correct" way - this isn't hard 
> though, just be aware that that all PDF 'printing' programs are
created
> equal.
>
> Web aim on converting using Word 2007 or 2010:
> http://webaim.org/techniques/acrobat/converting#word
>
> If you only have word 2003 and don't want to buy Adobe Acrobat, then

> Open Office (and presumably, the forked project Libre Office) is
your
> best bet. It will open .doc files, and the PDFs look pretty good
under
> the hood to me.
>
> Open office Wiki entry on exporting to PDF:
>
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOo3_User_Guide
s/
> Getting_Started/Exporting_to_PDF
>
>
> *Retro fitting an existing PDF*
> You need someone with Acrobat Professional who can manually tag the 
> document to make it fully accessible. This assumes that the text in 
> there is 'available' as text - generally it is though unless you're 
> really unlucky. Even a scanned documents can usually have 'OCR' run
on
> them, although results may be mixed.
>
> Adobe's documentation on their tagging semantics is pretty poor, but

> does follow HTML principles. I learned most of what I know by
looking
at
> files converted from well formatted word documents and from a couple
of
> other online resources:
> -Adobe's overview of the 'accessibility repair workflow'
>
http://www.adobe.com/accessibility/products/acrobat/pdf/A9-pdf-access-
re
> pair-workflow.pdf
> -Adobe's overview of PDF tags
>
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Acrobat/8.0/Professional/help.html?content
=W
> S58a04a822e3e50102bd615109794195ff-7cd8.html
>
> If you've got a paid up version of Adobe Acrobat, there are other 
> options - If you're lucky you might be able to export/convert to
plain
> text which would allow access to the content even if not making the 
> structure accessible.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk
> [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Howie, Sam
> Sent: 18 April 2011 11:25
> Subject: [BCAB] Accessible PDF
>
> Hi All
> Can anyone tell how I can make pdf files fully accessible to screen 
> reader users? Are there are set guidelines Thanks Sam
>
>
> Glasgow - Proud Host City of the 2014 Commonwealth Games
>
>
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