[BCAB] AUDIBLE BOOKS SITE

Léonie Watson tink at tink.co.uk
Sun May 5 13:42:42 BST 2013


When you're browsing the web you might use one of Jaws' quick navigation
keys to move around a web page. Most screen readers have quick navigation
keys (although they're sometimes known by slightly different names). In Jaws
you might press the h key (to move from one heading to the next), the l key
(to move from one list to the next), or the t key (to move from one table to
the next). Check the Jaws help files for all the different options.

When you press one of those keys on a web page, Jaws recognises the key
you've pressed and carries out the expected action. Sometimes though you
don't want Jaws to do that. Sometimes you press the h key because you want
to type the letter h. Somehow you have to tell your screen reader to ignore
the key you've pressed.

The most common time this happens is when you're filling in a form field.
That pop noise that Jaws makes tells you that when you press a key, Jaws
will ignore it and you'll be able to type as normal. When you leave the form
field, Jaws pops again to tell you that it's gone back to intercepting the
keys you press so it can carry out screen reader actions.

With forms this all happens automatically. There are times though when you
need to manually tell Jaws to ignore the next key you press. To do this you
use something called the pass through command. In Jaws it's the Jaws key +
3.

When you use the pass through command, you're telling Jaws that it should
ignore the next key you press and let it do whatever that key generally
does.

Here's another example: 

If you use the left/right arrow keys to move through some text on a web
page, Jaws will announce the previous/next letter. If you use the left/right
arrow keys without a screen reader, nothing happens. Sighted people have no
need to move through text one letter at a time like we do.

If you first press Jaws key + 3, then the left/right arrow, Jaws will remain
silent. If you press the left/right arrow again, Jaws will respond as
normal. By pressing Jaws key + 3 (the pass through command) you've told your
screen reader to ignore the next key you press, and let it do whatever it
would do if the screen reader weren't there.


It's rare that the pass through command is needed. Far too rare to make it a
sensible thing to expect people to use on a web page like Audible has done.
It's an odd concept and thankfully most of the time we don't have to worry
about it, but I hope this helps explain it some.

Léonie.


-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of R DAVIES
Sent: 05 May 2013 12:44
To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [BCAB] AUDIBLE BOOKS SITE

Hi All

I have been following this withinterest but am puzzled by the expression
Bypass Key!

I am a Jaws user, not very experienced, and have never heard of this
keystroke.

Can someone explain it to me please and which keys it involves?

Many thanks
Robin

-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Yusuf
Sent: 04 May 2013 23:24
To: BCAB Discussion List
Subject: Re: [BCAB] AUDIBLE BOOKS SITE

Just to clarify something. When I said I thought that the bi-pass followed
by enter worked, I now think it isn't working. Window Eyes acts as if the
page has been reloaded, but the links that include genre definitely aren't
being loaded. As Ian and others have said the full proof way to load these
sub menus is to tab to the link, then do the bi-pass and hit enter.

But how many of us by default tab round a page? I know I don't.
Yusuf

On 04/05/2013 21:47, Iain Lackie wrote:
> Steve
> the Pass through key and Spacebar does work, but you must tab to the 
> link for it to do so. If you tab to the link with the submenu and 
> follow the instruction as spoken, you will be taken to the submenu.
>
> Iain
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Steven Bingham
> Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 9:27 PM
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] AUDIBLE BOOKS SITE
>
> Hi Ian
>
> Yes using the pass through key and then tabbing seems to work but it 
> is
not
> what is said.
>
> The help and advice sections are non-existent at least as far as JAWS 
> is concerned and I don't think other screen readers will be able to do 
> much
in
> that area.
>
> Talking to non-vision impaired people the suggestion is that anyone 
> still using older version of software like Windows XP may also have 
> difficulties as IE8 cannot handle these developments. I still have an 
> XP machine and
may
> give it a try tomorrow.
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Iain
Lackie
> Sent: 04 May 2013 19:56
> To: BCAB Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] AUDIBLE BOOKS SITE
>
> Hi Steve
> I consistently get to the submenu if I tab to the link. Using the 
> arrow keys, the pass through key has no effect, even though JAWS reads the
link.
> Consistently if I use the tab key, I always am getting to the submenu. 
> I haven't looked at the help yet.
>
> Iain
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven Bingham
> Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 5:47 PM
> To: tink at tink.co.uk ; 'BCAB Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] AUDIBLE BOOKS SITE
>
> I've just been hung up on by an Audible Costomer Service agent. This 
> one got upset because he couldn't understand why I couldn't use a 
> mouse. I had explained about screen readers but he apparently wasn't 
> listening.
>
> I have now established that there are inconsistency between the way 
> the link/menus work or don't work. I can get the menu on the Welcome 
> (name) to work by using the pass through key. However the Library menu 
> does not come up but by just pressing the space bar you get to all the 
> relevant links
and
> the library. The shop Audible link/menu does not seem to work reliably.
> Sometimes I get to a genre sometimes I get nowhere.
>
> The help and advice info does appear on the screen but as far as I can
work
> out screen readers cannot read it. I suspect it is being placed on the 
> screen as an object containing text but the construction of the object 
> hides the text.
>
> Does anyone have the slightest idea what Audible are using. I don't 
> think it is standard HTML5. I know that JAWS cannot handle all the new 
> HTML5 elements.
>
> Steve
>
> Incidentally the tech term was 'buggering about' which might give some 
> offence.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Léonie 
> Watson
> Sent: 04 May 2013 15:20
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] AUDIBLE BOOKS (THIS MESSAGE MAY CONTAIN TECHNICAL
TERMS
> THAT MAY CAUSE OFFENCE)
>
> There's no need to apologise for using technical terms Steve. This 
> list is for discussions about technology and all matters technical. 
> Some topics will be more technical than others, and some people will 
> be more technical than others, but all are welcome.
>
>
> You're right that Audible hasn't done a great job of its new website. 
> The first thing I noticed was that the "Sign into Audible" link is 
> always displayed, even when I'm signed into my account. The 
> requirement to pass a keystroke through to the browser in the menu is 
> ridiculous, and the page that describes the new website doesn't have 
> any content on it (with Jaws
at
> least).
>
>
>
> For a website that surely knows it has a strong blind and partially
sighted
> audience, they really haven't considered a sizeable chunk of the 
> marketplace. I'll be writing to them too.
>
> Léonie.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Steven 
> Bingham
> Sent: 03 May 2013 22:39
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
> Subject: [BCAB] AUDIBLE BOOKS (THIS MESSAGE MAY CONTAIN TECHNICAL 
> TERMS THAT MAY CAUSE OFFENCE)
>
> Hello
>
>
>
> Audible have been buggering about with their site and have effectively
made
> it very unfriendly to screen reader users.
>
>
>
> The problems start with the Library and Shop Audible links near the 
> top of the home (and every other page).
>
>
>
> These two links, when hovered over with a mouse, display menus. Using 
> JAWS and possibly NVDA, these menu do not appear. The Library menu is 
> not too important as the options on it appear as normal links on the 
> library page which you get to through the link in the ordinary way. 
> The menu on the
Shop
> Audible link is much more important as it contains a number of links 
> jto book categories and so on that do not appear to be accessible in 
> any other way.
>
>
>
> Other links like the My Account link do not appear to be accessible. 
> At least using JAWS14 and IE10 I cannot find them.
>
>
>
> Also the Help and advice facilities do not appear to be readable by JAWS.
> Follow the link Something Looks Different and you can read a brief 
> introduction but the meat of the page is not read. Even switching to 
> JAWS cursor mode does not make it readable.
>
>
>
> I have written to Audible pointing out these difficulties but as yet 
> have not received an email response. I know that some others have also
contacted
> Audible but as far as I know the best response so far is "We are 
> looking
at
> the problems." This is particularly worrying as they have obviously 
> considered screen reader users - the links I mentioned above have an 
> attached legend saying "Press pass through key and space bar to activate."
> But they have not made sure that it works. If it works with any screen 
> reader I would be interested to know.
>
>
>
> Most of the rest of the site appears to be as it always has been - 
> that is just about accessible but needs patients. Although a quick 
> look at my library suggests that the new ratings system might be very 
> painful indeed to ignore.
>
>
>
> I would be interested in others' comments on the new Audible site.
>
>
>
> Steve
>
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To find out more about BCAB and the benefits that membership can bring,
please visit our website:
http://www.bcab.org.uk/

To manage your subscription to the BCAB mailing list, please visit our
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