[BCAB] Biting the bullet.

David Griffith d.griffith at btinternet.com
Fri May 9 10:53:59 BST 2014


You can still buy the extended keyboard from Apple.
http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MB110B/B/apple-keyboard-with-numeric-keypa
d-british d 

But you may want to experiment with an external numpad first.

I personally consider the old style "chunky" apple keyboards a superior
product to the modern thin style models so  you may want to look also at the
second hand market. However this is personal preference as I hate the modern
trend to slim thin keyboards as  it plays merry hell with my wrists whilst I
am typing. Others seem to love them despite their obvious lack of
ergonomics. They apparently look good even if they are not particularly
typing friendly.

David Griffith.
David Griffith

-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Eleanor
Martha Burke
Sent: 09 May 2014 09:40
To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [BCAB] Biting the bullet.

Pity the Store did not tell me that at the time of purchase.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of David
Griffith
Sent: 09 May 2014 09:23
To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [BCAB] Biting the bullet.

Macs are still available with Numpad keyboards but you have to specify this
at time of purchase and pay for the upgraded extended keyboard. This is what
I had to do when I bought my iMac.

David Griffith

-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of M Lakhani
Sent: 09 May 2014 02:54
To: BCAB Discussion List
Subject: Re: [BCAB] Biting the bullet.

Well I do see your point Eleanor ! 
The old iMac keyboard layout did indeed have a num pad & an additional
F13-F15 keys. I can tell you that even on my 15in retina MacBook Pro, these
don't exist, & nor did they exist on the last ever models of  17in Mac
laptops, ca.2011 I think!
All new Apple desktop machines now made by Apple, iMac, MacMini or Mac Pro
servers haven't had this num pad for at least a couple of years now!
The reason is the advent of the trackpad , which is: as HCI & UX data
suggests, found to be much faster & more  engaging! To be fair, a trackpad
is indeed a much more engaging , faster & less laborious experience, even
with VO, & is fairly similar to iOS by default, if one can learn to master
it.
To work around your difficulties Eleanor , you could:
1. Try out David's very sensible & highly tempting suggestion of Bluetooth
or USB num pad.
2. Connect a PC based full sized keyboard which should work.
3. Get an old iMac keyboard online.
4. Learn to love your trackpad .
5. Get an external trackpad .
6. Just rely on the VO with your keyboard . (Many seasoned  VO Mac users
still do this).

Just keep at it Eleanor & I'm sure you'll get plenty of help on this list
along the way!
HTH
Muzz



Sent from my iPhone

> On 9 May 2014, at 02:25, "Eleanor Martha Burke"
<eleanormarthaburke at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> To clarify David, you are talking about only the number pad part of a
> keyboard.  I have never known that such an item exists but from what you
say
> it certainly can be very useful.  I wonder why Apple does not include full
> keyboards in all its Macs, not even the large Mac Book Airs have the full
> keyboard to the best of my knowledge.
> 
> Eleanor
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of David
> Griffith
> Sent: 08 May 2014 22:59
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] Biting the bullet.
> 
> Well whilst we are talking about accessories for a MacBook or Air an
option
> which many forget is the possibility of buying an a cheap external uSB
> Numpad keyboard.
> 
> These can be bought very cheaply, I experimented with one which was under
> £10,, I think it was actually only £5 when bought on Amazon.
> The advantage of this device is that it is a fraction of the size of an
> external keyboard but extends much of the functionality of the numpad
> commander to MacBook and Air users. Due to their size they are also very
> portable.
> 
> There is one restriction which I am aware of which applies to the external
> Numpad as opposed to the one built into the apple keyboards .  This
> restriction is that it is  not possible to customise the key functionality
> using the  numpad commander options panel in Voiceover Utility. However
you
> should be able to access the default options with an external numpad
> providing all the normal keys are present.
> 
> I obviously cannot guarantee this works as I have not tested more than one
> of them. Before anyone asks I have no idea of the model I bought but it
was
> the cheapest one on Amazon.
> I connected it and it appeared to work fine for default functionality.
> 
> So for example in Numpad commander the following is available 
> 1 = item chooser.
> 2 =  VO down arrow.
> 4 = vo left arrow.
> 5 = Vo space 
> 6 = vo right arrow 
> 8 = Vo up arrow.
> So essentially navigating around the Mac becomes simply a matter of using
> the numpad cursors keys clustered around the 5 and pressing that 5 button
> when you want to execute anything.
> In addition.
> Numpad plus key = shift VO M  or same as application key on Windows for
> context menu.
> 7 = shift Vo up arrow  or un-interact.
> 9= shift  vo down arrow or interact.
> VO mum lock toggles numpad commander on and off.
> Numpad slash = VO M or quick access to menu. Press twice quickly to go to
> status menu.
> Numpad asterix  = Window chooser.
> 
> David Griffith
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Eleanor
> Martha Burke
> Sent: 08 May 2014 22:16
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] Biting the bullet.
> 
> I have downloaded this app but it seems quite visual in terms of getting
> started.  Have you used it Muzz?  Can you give a quick guide start?  What
> are the in-app purchases?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Muzzamil
> Lakhani
> Sent: 08 May 2014 21:23
> To: BCAB Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] Biting the bullet.
> 
> Here is an app that will allow the trackpad functionality as I mentioned:
>
https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/remote-mouse-mobile-trackpad/id385894596?mt=
> 8
> 
> I’ve found the following trackpads that will allow connectivity to a Mac:-
> Logitech trackpad for Mac:
> 
>
http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2012/12/14/logitech-trackpad-for-mac-review-a-
> viable-magic-trackpad-alternative-with-an-unfortunate-trade-off/
> 
> 
> Wacom Bamboo:
> http://www.wacom.com/en/gb/everyday/bamboo-pad-wireless
> 
> I’d also recommend shopping on eBay for prices much cheaper than what
Apple
> has to offer directly. :)
> 
> HTH
> Muzz 
> 
> 
> 
> Muzz Lakhani
> Technology Development & Training Officer
> Fram3 Ltd
> The Dylan Thomas Centre
> Somerset Place
> Swansea
> SA1 1RR
> Tel: +44-(0)1792 655948
> Mobile: +44-(0)7766 114719
> Email: muzz at fram3.co.uk
> Personal: Muzz.Lakhani at googlemail.com
> Twitter: @emperorMuzz
> 
> On 8 May 2014, at 20:37, Eleanor Martha Burke
<eleanormarthaburke at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Muzz that is brilliant re the key combination on the right.  I will
>> certainly adopt that from now.  The second thing is that Apple told me
the
>> track pad is around £65 so are you implying that there are other
Bluetooth
>> ones on the market which I could purchase other than the one with the
> Apple
>> logo?  Finally, how then is an iOS device configured to act as a trackpad
>> for the Mac?
>> 
>> Eleanor
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of M Lakhani
>> Sent: 08 May 2014 20:12
>> To: BCAB Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [BCAB] Biting the bullet.
>> 
>> Well a neat trick I've found to more efficiently control the trackpad is
> to
>> use an external one. Bluetooth trackpad can cost around £25-£40 & you can
>> even control the mac using an iOS device as an external trackpad!
>> I use an app  called iText Express for Word Processing. There is also a
> way
>> to customise VO for one hand control, & VO can even be scripted!
>> The cmd+shift+d is a native MacOS gesture & even my sighted friends use
it
>> all the time.
>> One thing you might find useful to perform the cmd+shift+d gesture,
> Eleanor,
>> is to use the command key on the right hand  side of the space bar, so
> that
>> the left hand only needs to press the shift & d key! Even I do it this
way
>> due to an arthritic left hand! For an even less strain on the left hand,
> you
>> can even press the shift key on the right hand. This way, your hand stays
>> closer to the touch type hand position, & studies show that this allows
>> better focussing of the eyes on the screen, & hence better posturing of
> the
>> neck!
>> Any key combo announced straight after the preceding menu item is VO's
way
>> of announcing the OS gestures.
>> 
>> HTH
>> Muzz
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On 8 May 2014, at 19:00, "Eleanor Martha Burke"
>>> <eleanormarthaburke at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Actually Sandra I should have said something about the touch pad.  This
> of
>>> course resembles the hand gestures used on an iOS device but while I am
>> very
>>> efficient with my iPhone, iPod and iPad mini, no way can I use the touch
>> pad
>>> and actually have had to turn it off as I was jumping about the place.
I
>>> identified that my 'jumping about' was due to me lightly touching the
>> touch
>>> pad.  It is easy to turn on and off so maybe in the future I willmaster
>> it.
>>> My current tutor on the Mac does not use it either and he is very good.
>>> Others would not be without it of course and it works just fine with
> voice
>>> over.  I would be interested in our comments after you have seen one and
>> you
>>> can send off list if you like to eleanormarthaburke at gmail.com or if the
>> Mods
>>> permit, then reply on list.
>>> 
>>> Eleanor
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Sandra
>>> Heaton
>>> Sent: 08 May 2014 18:32
>>> To: BCAB Discussion List
>>> Subject: Re: [BCAB] Biting the bullet.
>>> 
>>> Thanks Eleanor,
>>> 
>>> I appreciate this.  I may come back to you soon to ask where you found
> the
>> 
>>> list or maybe you have the address?  no doubt I will most probably need
> it
>> 
>>> at some point.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> take care,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sandra
>>> Braille Greeting Cards
>>> www.braille-greetings-cards.co.uk
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Eleanor Martha Burke" <eleanormarthaburke at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'BCAB Discussion List'" <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 5:19 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [BCAB] Biting the bullet.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sandra, maybe I should be writing off list but my comments might be of
>>> interest to others also.
>>> 
>>> I too had an iPhone and iPod and even an iPad mini.  There is no real
>>> resemblance between these devices and the Mac apart from voice over,
that
>>> said of course for one using a Bluetooth keyboard with these devices
then
>>> there is a greater similarity.  I started off not having a clue, could
>> only
>>> just about turn on the Mac *smile*.  Thanks to much help I have
>> progressed.
>>> In the Apple store I found it hard to have a demo on the Mac as there
was
>> so
>>> much external environmental noise so I recommend you bring along some
>>> headphones and I am sure the person in the Apple store will pair them
> with
>> a
>>> Mac for you.  I liked the size and style of the Mac Book Air and had
>> decided
>>> it would replace my NC10 Windows XP Home netbook, which incidentally I
am
>>> still hanging on to for dear life!!!  I did not find the Mac at all
>>> intuitive, I was more puzzled about the number of fingers I required to
>>> execute a command, for example whereas on my Windows machine I could
> press
>> 2
>>> keys to send an e-mail, I found myself having to use 4 fingers which was
>> and
>>> remains very cumbersome.  I also found the concept of tables strange and
>>> having to interact and uninteract with a table.  However, that is
> becoming
>>> clearer as time goes on.  What I miss particularly is the magnification
> as
>> I
>>> use Supernova but have installed a demo of Zoomtext which I have not
>>> activated yet as I want to get to know the keystrokes.  Everyone says to
>>> read the tutorials and listen to the podcasts on using the Mac with
voice
>>> over and these are indeed very useful.  It was also suggested to me that
> I
>>> might think of paying the Apple fee of about and I quote loosely here
£79
>>> per year to have one to one lessons at the Apple Store.  I am reluctant
> to
>>> do this as there is no real expert at my local Apple store who could
>>> meaningfully teach me though I believe in central London at the Regent
>>> Street branch of Apple there are suitably qualified people.  I have
found
>>> myself someone who can assist me who is a Mac user and have also joined
a
>>> Mac e-mail list which I do not bother with much these days though I do
>> read
>>> it in case there is something of interest to me there.  While I had
>>> considered giving the Mac Book Air to a niece or nephew within weeks of
>>> purchasing it, I can now say that I have changed my mind and enjoy using
>> the
>>> Mac.  To date I have not used word processing but have sent e-mails,
>>> received e-mails, sent and received iMessages, made notes and have used
>>> Safari.  I am disappointed that iBooks is not accessable with voice
over.
>>> The cost is high financially so I guess I went for the cheaper option of
>> the
>>> Mac Book air and an external CD/DVD drive.  As I am an Open University
>>> student, I asked Apple if they offered any discount to students on proof
>> of
>>> attendance at the college/university and I got about 15% discount which
>> was
>>> good as I think it amounted to about £120.00 off the asking price.  Oh
>> yes,
>>> I have used Skype on the Mac too.  Finally, I would like to thank all
> list
>>> members on this list who have answered my Mac questions and helped me
>>> greatly.
>>> 
>>> Eleanor
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Sandra
>>> Heaton
>>> Sent: 08 May 2014 16:41
>>> To: BCAB Discussion List
>>> Subject: Re: [BCAB] Biting the bullet.
>>> 
>>> Hi Eleanor,
>>> 
>>> Did you find it pretty easy?  or did you take to it straight away!  I
>>> already have an ipad and an iphone so it shouldn't be too difficult.
>>> 
>>> Thanks.  I am hoping to go over to Manchester next week as I wanted to
>>> actually go in to an apple store and have a look properly  I like to
have
>> my
>>> 
>>> hands on it and just get the feel for it before I buy.
>>> 
>>> Manchester is the nearest apple store to me.  I am quite excited about
it
>>> now.  I bet you think I am silly being excited.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sandra
>>> Braille Greeting Cards
>>> www.braille-greetings-cards.co.uk
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Eleanor Martha Burke" <eleanormarthaburke at gmail.com>
>>> To: "BCAB Discussion List" <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 4:00 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [BCAB] Biting the bullet.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> good luck Sandra I did the same and got the Mac book air
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On 8 May 2014, at 15:26, "Sandra Heaton" <sandra at sandras-place.co.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks to all who made comments about the macs.  thank you all very
>> much.
>>> 
>>>>> I now know what I have decided to do!
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am going to buy a Mac Pro and will run it alongside  my computer
that
>> I
>>> 
>>>>> already have so that I can slowly move over from Windows doing it
>>>>> gradually.  I am sure I will have fun with the new system.
>>>>> 
>>>>> thanks for your help in this matter.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sandra
>>>>> Braille Greeting Cards
>>>>> www.braille-greetings-cards.co.uk
>>>>> -- 
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bring,
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