[BCAB] accessible telly

John Farley john_farley at btinternet.com
Mon Jul 24 10:39:23 BST 2017


John,

You have in your reply below:
"Both Sky and Virgin prefer apps to provide accessibility"

I do not know about Virgin, but I am a Sky subscriber.
The Sky+ app on my iPhone 6 stopped working when IOS 10 was release back in
March. I have been chasing Sky ever since to correct the app without
success.

So, while they encourage it in order to avoid the expense of doing the job
properly they do nothing effective to ensure their app works.


Regards, John

Tel: +44 (0) 1442 259243
Mob: +44 (0) 7815 056076



-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of John Paton
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 10:26 AM
To: BCAB Discussion List
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly

Hi Tom,

We are still pushing for accessibility in TVs so here's a brief rundown.

Samsung and Panasonic have talking TVs. Samsung speaks everything and
Panasonic speaks the main menus needed for watching TV. Talking Panasonic
TVs have two EPGs and unfortunately the inaccessible one is the default so
you'll need to get someone to switch to the Panasonic EPG rather than the
Freetime one. Go to the "banner & TV guide selection" option in display
settings in the setup menu. Panasonic are still working on making their
Freeview Play TVs accessible with speech.

The Philips brand is licensed by a different company in the US than it is
here and it's the US licensee, a subsidiary of Funai Electric Co, who has
implemented text to speech. I haven't yet been able to find out if the US
licensee sells in Europe under a different name. My understanding is that
the European licensee of the Philips brand is keen to make full use of
Talkback but currently has technical hurdles to overcome.

Sony TVs have enabled TalkBack but it doesn't quite work for navigating
EPGs. 

As mentioned elsewhere Sky and Virgin boxes can't be accessed via
accessibility built into the TV. The speech software in the TV doesn't have
access to the EPG in a form it can use. Both Sky and Virgin prefer apps to
provide accessibility and whilst we encourage any steps that improve the
experience we feel that built in accessibility is the only real way.
Accessibility via an app is not equality and can lead to an unreliable
experience. 

The Equality act 2010 only covers services and not products. Products can
only be legislated on at a European level and the many attempts at a
European accessibility act have ended up being watered down or sunk
completely. 

Ofcom has some power over EPG providers and several years ago we convinced
Ofcom to publish a consultation on EPG accessibility. I'm sure some people
on here responded and helped us make the case. The issue was hard fought and
we have been applying pressure on Ofcom to make a decision. They will be
publishing a second consultation with an amended proposal. We don't yet know
what that proposal will be. 

I have probably forgotten to mention something and there is usually
something confidential on any topic that I can't talk about but hopefully
that gives a good overview.

Best regards,

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of tom.reid21
Sent: 23 July 2017 10:44
To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly

Is there anybody at the RNIB that is supposed to deal with companies on
accessibility.

I've said this before on the list, but, one problem I get is that companies
will say this is an individual problem, unique was the word the guy at
Virgin used yesterday.

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Jackie Brown
Sent: 23 July 2017 09:01
To: john_farley at btinternet.com; 'BCAB Discussion List'
<bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly

Hi John

These companies should be hammered, but they have wealth on their side so
pay their way out of it!

Kind regards,

Jackie Brown
Email: Jackieannbrown62 at gmail.com
Check out my website: www.thebrownsplace.info Follow me on Twitter:
@thebrownsplace Skype name: thejackmate

-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of John Farley
Sent: 22 July 2017 22:44
To: 'BCAB Discussion List' <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly

Hello Jackie and list,

I used to be able to use the Sky+ app on my iPhone. 
It used to work very well and gave me full access to the facilities on the
Sky+ unit we have.
Unfortunately, since IOS 10 was released it has stopped working properly. I
cannot use the Planner facility at all as the programs that have been
recorded will not be voiced by Voice Over in my iPhone.

I have been chasing Sky since March on this with no effective results.
Initially, they would not do anything with it as there were insufficient
complaints about it.
Now, they tell me they are working on it, but cannot tell me a resolution
date or even an  estimate for a resolution. I do wonder if the comment that
they are working on  it is simply a platitude to keep me quiet!

In effect, I no longer can control my Sky+ unit myself.
My wife is totally non-techie and so I cannot time shift my viewing at all
now.

It is just bad support from Sky on this for what is a very expensive
product.
  


Regards, John

Tel: +44 (0) 1442 259243
Mob: +44 (0) 7815 056076



-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Jackie Brown
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 4:40 PM
To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly

Hi Tom

Sadly none of them are accessible right out of the box.  But Sky apps are
not too bad though I don't use mine now because I am not subscribed.

Kind regards,

Jackie Brown
Email: Jackieannbrown62 at gmail.com
Check out my website: www.thebrownsplace.info Follow me on Twitter:
@thebrownsplace Skype name: thejackmate


-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of tom.reid21
Sent: 22 July 2017 16:07
To: 'BCAB Discussion List' <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly

Hi folks, further to this:

The latest virgin boxes, the v6 and 500, do not have screen reader
capability. Virgin gets boxes from tivo, but, it's  Virgin's software.

Virgin can not supply a number for Tivo, nor can advisers look on the
internet to check Tivo's accessibility page.

More generally, there seems to be no accessibility team at Virgin. It was
suggested that I contace head office, guess what, by letter. You get the
drift. I've never got an answer from Virgin on accessibility even when
promised.

Are other companies offering better accessibility? If so, it will be good by
Virgin. 

Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of tom.reid21
Sent: 22 July 2017 14:48
To: 'BCAB Discussion List' <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly

Cheers Ed, wasn't obvious to me. Thanks, Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Edward Green
Sent: 22 July 2017 11:19
To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly

Hi Tom,

I may be stating the obvious (apologies if I am), but a talking TV won't
make your Virgin box speak, so you'll bee limited to programme information
from the sources that Jackie has mentioned.  You won't be able to read
Virgin channels/EPG with your TV alone.

TiVo does apparently have a Screen Reader, but I don't know if it's
available on the boxes provided by Virgin Media.

https://www.tivo.com/accessibility

Cheers,

Ed
> On 22 Jul 2017, at 09:00, Jackie Brown <jackieannbrown62 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Tom
> 
> I would think so by today's standards.  I have my Sky+ HD box in one 
> HDMI socket, and the TVonics box in another HDMI socket.  Although I 
> don't subscribe to Sky, what I have done is put one aerial lead from 
> the Sky dish into the TV and tuned it to FreeSat.  As there are two 
> aerials coming from the dish, I have left the other one in the Sky+ 
> box, and this enables me to listen to my Sky Gnome anywhere I want to 
> take it in the house or in the garden.  The gnome is now obsolete, but 
> it is something I have had for more than a decade and find really 
> useful as it runs on a rechargeable battery, gives stereo sound, and 
> lets you change channels.  I seem to remember RNIB giving them away about
nine years ago, so I collected a few... just in case!
> 
> Regarding the TV, if you can pick one up, they are around  450 which 
> is what we paid I think a couple of months ago.  It is well worth it 
> if you want to tap into the TTS because every menu item is spoken, so 
> it's not a half-baked attempt at accessibility.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Jackie Brown
> Email: Jackieannbrown62 at gmail.com
> Check out my website: www.thebrownsplace.info Follow me on Twitter: 
> @thebrownsplace Skype name: thejackmate
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of
> tom.reid21
> Sent: 21 July 2017 21:25
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List' <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible tele
> 
> Hi Jackie, sounds great. I've got a virgin box connected to our tele. 
> Would your tele work with that?
> 
> Thanks, Tom
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Jackie 
> Brown
> Sent: 21 July 2017 17:14
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List' <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible tele
> 
> Hi Tom
> 
> We have the Samsung UE40KU6400 which has full TTS.  It reads out all 
> channel numbers and programme information, the remote control is 
> nicely laid out, and I especially like the source button that lets you 
> skip through any HDMI devices that are plugged in.  For example, we 
> have our TVonics and Sky+ HD box on HDMI, and it is really easy to 
> move between these and the TV tuner itself.
> 
> Regarding the TV tuner, you can choose between Freeview, Satellite or 
> FreeSat, and all channels, EPG and numbers are spoken, as are all the
menus.
> When ours was set up, the guy tuned it to Freeview, but I retuned it 
> myself to FreeSat because I think the signal is better.  I also have 
> the TV standing on a Sonos PlayBase, and the sound is brill.
> 
> The one we have is a 40-inch, but it was the smallest there is with 
> TTS, so while it is a bit of an overkill, our visitors love it when they
come round.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Jackie Brown
> Email: Jackieannbrown62 at gmail.com
> Check out my website: www.thebrownsplace.info Follow me on Twitter:
> @thebrownsplace Skype name: thejackmate
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of
> tom.reid21
> Sent: 21 July 2017 16:56
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List' <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
> Subject: [BCAB] accessible tele
> 
> I'd like suggestions for a tele that speaks what's on the screen so 
> that we can search for programmes and have full control of its remote
control.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, Tom
> 
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