[BCAB] accessible telly

Jackie Brown jackieannbrown62 at gmail.com
Tue Jul 25 10:34:55 BST 2017


Hi Kerry

You won't hear me complaining about more tennis, I absolutely love it, even
though it is elitist.  That is why I like my Sky gnome even now, because it
let me listen to the BBC TV coverage of Wimbledon outside or in a room where
I could just take it.  Sky's coverage is very good if you want to pay for
it, but these providers are giving us a bad deal with inaccessibility to
their services, I agree.

Kind regards,

Jackie Brown
Email: Jackieannbrown62 at gmail.com
Check out my website: www.thebrownsplace.info
Follow me on Twitter: @thebrownsplace
Skype name: thejackmate


-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Kerry
Fielding
Sent: 24 July 2017 22:27
To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly

 Yes Steve, I heard the advert for this. Sadly, as per usual, tennis didn't
seem to be among the popular sporting channels. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I
do think we get a poor deal regarding the coverage of tennis in this
country. I will get off my soapbox now. :-) as for golf, to me, it's just
getting paid to tidy up outside. LOL

Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 Jul 2017, at 12:00, Steve Nutt <steve at comproom.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Trouble is, regardless of political views on Sky, I believe they have 
> the best content.
> 
> For example, they now have a sports channel for each individual sport.  
> So if you're into football, you can watch it all day now.
> 
> Sky Cinema is also great, and the sound quality is some of the best 
> out there, especially now they support Ultra HD.
> 
> All the best
> 
> Steve
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Jackie 
> Brown
> Sent: 24 July 2017 11:28
> To: john_farley at btinternet.com; 'BCAB Discussion List'
> <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly
> 
> Hi John
> 
> Very probably, that's why I won't subscribe any more, because it's 
> just lining their pockets, not to mention those of the celebrities and 
> sports stars!
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Jackie Brown
> Email: Jackieannbrown62 at gmail.com
> Check out my website: www.thebrownsplace.info Follow me on Twitter:
> @thebrownsplace Skype name: thejackmate
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of John 
> Farley
> Sent: 24 July 2017 11:24
> To: 'Steve Nutt' <steve at comproom.co.uk>; 'BCAB Discussion List'
> <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly
> 
> Steve,
> 
> What is hardly fair about this?
> I and others reported problems with the Sky+ app since the beginning 
> of March, some 5 months ago.
> Their initial response was that there were not enough people 
> complaining about it and it was not their fault anyway, but a result of
IOS 10 release.
> Eventually they tell me they will work on it at some time.
> 
> I think it is not fair that I pay a lot of money for the full Sky+ 
> service and cannot use it.
> 
> Do you think they may simply be wanting to milk the cash cow further 
> and "encourage" their users to go to Sky Q as a means of resolving the
issue.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards, John
> 
> Tel: +44 (0) 1442 259243
> Mob: +44 (0) 7815 056076
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Nutt [mailto:steve at comproom.co.uk]
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 11:15 AM
> To: john_farley at btinternet.com; 'BCAB Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: [BCAB] accessible telly
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Hardly fair really, they will do it at some stage.
> 
> I just had an update to Sky Q for Android and it's fantastic.
> 
> So I'd expect good things coming soon.
> 
> All the best
> 
> Steve
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of John 
> Farley
> Sent: 24 July 2017 10:39
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List' <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly
> 
> John,
> 
> You have in your reply below:
> "Both Sky and Virgin prefer apps to provide accessibility"
> 
> I do not know about Virgin, but I am a Sky subscriber.
> The Sky+ app on my iPhone 6 stopped working when IOS 10 was release 
> back in March. I have been chasing Sky ever since to correct the app 
> without success.
> 
> So, while they encourage it in order to avoid the expense of doing the 
> job properly they do nothing effective to ensure their app works.
> 
> 
> Regards, John
> 
> Tel: +44 (0) 1442 259243
> Mob: +44 (0) 7815 056076
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of John 
> Paton
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 10:26 AM
> To: BCAB Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly
> 
> Hi Tom,
> 
> We are still pushing for accessibility in TVs so here's a brief rundown.
> 
> Samsung and Panasonic have talking TVs. Samsung speaks everything and 
> Panasonic speaks the main menus needed for watching TV. Talking 
> Panasonic TVs have two EPGs and unfortunately the inaccessible one is 
> the default so you'll need to get someone to switch to the Panasonic 
> EPG rather than the Freetime one. Go to the "banner & TV guide 
> selection" option in display settings in the setup menu. Panasonic are 
> still working on making their Freeview Play TVs accessible with speech.
> 
> The Philips brand is licensed by a different company in the US than it 
> is here and it's the US licensee, a subsidiary of Funai Electric Co, 
> who has implemented text to speech. I haven't yet been able to find 
> out if the US licensee sells in Europe under a different name. My 
> understanding is that the European licensee of the Philips brand is 
> keen to make full use of Talkback but currently has technical hurdles to
overcome.
> 
> Sony TVs have enabled TalkBack but it doesn't quite work for 
> navigating EPGs.
> 
> As mentioned elsewhere Sky and Virgin boxes can't be accessed via 
> accessibility built into the TV. The speech software in the TV doesn't 
> have access to the EPG in a form it can use. Both Sky and Virgin 
> prefer apps to provide accessibility and whilst we encourage any steps 
> that improve the experience we feel that built in accessibility is the
only real way.
> Accessibility via an app is not equality and can lead to an unreliable 
> experience.
> 
> The Equality act 2010 only covers services and not products. Products 
> can only be legislated on at a European level and the many attempts at 
> a European accessibility act have ended up being watered down or sunk 
> completely.
> 
> Ofcom has some power over EPG providers and several years ago we 
> convinced Ofcom to publish a consultation on EPG accessibility. I'm 
> sure some people on here responded and helped us make the case. The 
> issue was hard fought and we have been applying pressure on Ofcom to 
> make a decision. They will be publishing a second consultation with an 
> amended proposal. We don't yet know what that proposal will be.
> 
> I have probably forgotten to mention something and there is usually 
> something confidential on any topic that I can't talk about but 
> hopefully that gives a good overview.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> John
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of 
> tom.reid21
> Sent: 23 July 2017 10:44
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly
> 
> Is there anybody at the RNIB that is supposed to deal with companies 
> on accessibility.
> 
> I've said this before on the list, but, one problem I get is that 
> companies will say this is an individual problem, unique was the word 
> the guy at Virgin used yesterday.
> 
> Tom
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Jackie 
> Brown
> Sent: 23 July 2017 09:01
> To: john_farley at btinternet.com; 'BCAB Discussion List'
> <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly
> 
> Hi John
> 
> These companies should be hammered, but they have wealth on their side 
> so pay their way out of it!
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Jackie Brown
> Email: Jackieannbrown62 at gmail.com
> Check out my website: www.thebrownsplace.info Follow me on Twitter:
> @thebrownsplace Skype name: thejackmate
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of John 
> Farley
> Sent: 22 July 2017 22:44
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List' <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly
> 
> Hello Jackie and list,
> 
> I used to be able to use the Sky+ app on my iPhone. 
> It used to work very well and gave me full access to the facilities on 
> the
> Sky+ unit we have.
> Unfortunately, since IOS 10 was released it has stopped working 
> properly. I cannot use the Planner facility at all as the programs 
> that have been recorded will not be voiced by Voice Over in my iPhone.
> 
> I have been chasing Sky since March on this with no effective results.
> Initially, they would not do anything with it as there were 
> insufficient complaints about it.
> Now, they tell me they are working on it, but cannot tell me a 
> resolution date or even an  estimate for a resolution. I do wonder if 
> the comment that they are working on  it is simply a platitude to keep me
quiet!
> 
> In effect, I no longer can control my Sky+ unit myself.
> My wife is totally non-techie and so I cannot time shift my viewing at 
> all now.
> 
> It is just bad support from Sky on this for what is a very expensive 
> product.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards, John
> 
> Tel: +44 (0) 1442 259243
> Mob: +44 (0) 7815 056076
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Jackie 
> Brown
> Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 4:40 PM
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly
> 
> Hi Tom
> 
> Sadly none of them are accessible right out of the box.  But Sky apps 
> are not too bad though I don't use mine now because I am not subscribed.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Jackie Brown
> Email: Jackieannbrown62 at gmail.com
> Check out my website: www.thebrownsplace.info Follow me on Twitter:
> @thebrownsplace Skype name: thejackmate
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of 
> tom.reid21
> Sent: 22 July 2017 16:07
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List' <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly
> 
> Hi folks, further to this:
> 
> The latest virgin boxes, the v6 and 500, do not have screen reader 
> capability. Virgin gets boxes from tivo, but, it's  Virgin's software.
> 
> Virgin can not supply a number for Tivo, nor can advisers look on the 
> internet to check Tivo's accessibility page.
> 
> More generally, there seems to be no accessibility team at Virgin. It 
> was suggested that I contace head office, guess what, by letter. You 
> get the drift. I've never got an answer from Virgin on accessibility 
> even when promised.
> 
> Are other companies offering better accessibility? If so, it will be 
> good by Virgin.
> 
> Tom
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of 
> tom.reid21
> Sent: 22 July 2017 14:48
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List' <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly
> 
> Cheers Ed, wasn't obvious to me. Thanks, Tom
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Edward 
> Green
> Sent: 22 July 2017 11:19
> To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly
> 
> Hi Tom,
> 
> I may be stating the obvious (apologies if I am), but a talking TV 
> won't make your Virgin box speak, so you'll bee limited to programme 
> information from the sources that Jackie has mentioned.  You won't be 
> able to read Virgin channels/EPG with your TV alone.
> 
> TiVo does apparently have a Screen Reader, but I don't know if it's 
> available on the boxes provided by Virgin Media.
> 
> https://www.tivo.com/accessibility
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Ed
>> On 22 Jul 2017, at 09:00, Jackie Brown <jackieannbrown62 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Tom
>> 
>> I would think so by today's standards.  I have my Sky+ HD box in one 
>> HDMI socket, and the TVonics box in another HDMI socket.  Although I 
>> don't subscribe to Sky, what I have done is put one aerial lead from 
>> the Sky dish into the TV and tuned it to FreeSat.  As there are two 
>> aerials coming from the dish, I have left the other one in the Sky+ 
>> box, and this enables me to listen to my Sky Gnome anywhere I want to 
>> take it in the house or in the garden.  The gnome is now obsolete, 
>> but it is something I have had for more than a decade and find really 
>> useful as it runs on a rechargeable battery, gives stereo sound, and 
>> lets you change channels.  I seem to remember RNIB giving them away 
>> about
> nine years ago, so I collected a few... just in case!
>> 
>> Regarding the TV, if you can pick one up, they are around  450 which 
>> is what we paid I think a couple of months ago.  It is well worth it 
>> if you want to tap into the TTS because every menu item is spoken, so 
>> it's not a half-baked attempt at accessibility.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> Jackie Brown
>> Email: Jackieannbrown62 at gmail.com
>> Check out my website: www.thebrownsplace.info Follow me on Twitter: 
>> @thebrownsplace Skype name: thejackmate
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of
>> tom.reid21
>> Sent: 21 July 2017 21:25
>> To: 'BCAB Discussion List' <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
>> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible tele
>> 
>> Hi Jackie, sounds great. I've got a virgin box connected to our tele. 
>> Would your tele work with that?
>> 
>> Thanks, Tom
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of 
>> Jackie Brown
>> Sent: 21 July 2017 17:14
>> To: 'BCAB Discussion List' <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
>> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible tele
>> 
>> Hi Tom
>> 
>> We have the Samsung UE40KU6400 which has full TTS.  It reads out all 
>> channel numbers and programme information, the remote control is 
>> nicely laid out, and I especially like the source button that lets 
>> you skip through any HDMI devices that are plugged in.  For example, 
>> we have our TVonics and Sky+ HD box on HDMI, and it is really easy to 
>> move between these and the TV tuner itself.
>> 
>> Regarding the TV tuner, you can choose between Freeview, Satellite or 
>> FreeSat, and all channels, EPG and numbers are spoken, as are all the
> menus.
>> When ours was set up, the guy tuned it to Freeview, but I retuned it 
>> myself to FreeSat because I think the signal is better.  I also have 
>> the TV standing on a Sonos PlayBase, and the sound is brill.
>> 
>> The one we have is a 40-inch, but it was the smallest there is with 
>> TTS, so while it is a bit of an overkill, our visitors love it when 
>> they
> come round.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> Jackie Brown
>> Email: Jackieannbrown62 at gmail.com
>> Check out my website: www.thebrownsplace.info Follow me on Twitter:
>> @thebrownsplace Skype name: thejackmate
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of
>> tom.reid21
>> Sent: 21 July 2017 16:56
>> To: 'BCAB Discussion List' <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
>> Subject: [BCAB] accessible tele
>> 
>> I'd like suggestions for a tele that speaks what's on the screen so 
>> that we can search for programmes and have full control of its remote
> control.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks, Tom
>> 
>> --
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