[BCAB] accessible home appliance

Hugh NTL New hugh.megarry at ntlworld.com
Tue Jul 25 21:10:05 BST 2017


I completely  agree with you Jacky RNIB should be pushing for machines that
the blind can use whether that is with voice or dials and buttons  I would
not like to try to get a new washing machine today 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Jackie Brown
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 10:53 AM
To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible home appliance

Hi John

I would take issue with lack of interest in a talking washing machine, we
would have one in a heartbeat if it could tell us the different programmes,
spins and temperatures etc.  We are stuck with using only one or two
programmes because we simply don't have the choice that sighted people have.
I think using bump-ons is a bit of a cop-out as well, though I agree marking
your appliance with something like those is the only way sometimes.  But I
do think RNIB should be pushing manufacturers to make their white goods more
accessible.

Kind regards,

Jackie Brown
Email: Jackieannbrown62 at gmail.com
Check out my website: www.thebrownsplace.info Follow me on Twitter:
@thebrownsplace Skype name: thejackmate


-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of John Paton
Sent: 25 July 2017 10:43
To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible home appliance

Hi Phil,

I would agree that if expanded out to all white goods the trend is towards
touchpanels and touchscreens but in this case the lower end of the market
is, so far, retaining physical controls. We haven't seen a lot of demand for
talking washing machines. As a particular example most people have one or
two cycles they use on their washing machine and this is easily marked out
by bump-ons. Adding speech to a washing machine will increase the cost and
if I'm honest I would expect most people with sight loss would rather pay a
much smaller price for a pack of bump-ons. If we hear otherwise or if we see
an opportunity to bring down the cost of speech enabled white goods then
we'll get involved.

We are keeping an eye on the white goods industry to check whether we need
to step in and start working in this area. The last time we checked there
was still a selection of accessible (or accessible with bump-ons) devices on
the market. 

I hope that helps,

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Agent Orange
via Bcab
Sent: 25 July 2017 10:13
To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
Cc: Agent Orange
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible home appliance


Paul, John P and others,

Drawing on your experience working in Tech at RNIB, what could you suggest
for someone who wants a kitchen appliance that is accessible.  A washing
machine for example.  By accessible, I do not mean having to hook up a top
priced machine to the internet and using a smartphone and app to control it.
I mean accessible in a stand-alone, built-in sense.  One where a blind
person can set it up, operate it and receive spoken feedback from the
appliance itself.

It was Paul's comment that built-in access is getting better that prompts me
to ask this, as this observation strikes me as being rather sweeping.  

Sure, built-in access  has vastly improved for some sub-categories of device
such as smart phones and tablets, but it has got immeasurably worse in many
more categories.  For instance, the move away from simple buttons and knobs
to provide physical control and simple LEDs and beeps to provide feedback,
which are rapidly being replaced with touch screen or touch sensitive panels
which provide both the mechanism of control and feedback but which are
inherently inaccessible if you are blind.  This trend is happening right
across the spectrum of consumer electronics from music systems and hi fi, to
kitchen appliances and white goods, and beyond.

Plus of course the move towards requiring use of apps to control devices,
which is not accessibility in any real sense for an awful lot of people
except those with the financial and technical ability to play.

So I would challenge the notion that generally speaking built in
accessibility is improving, though I would accept that it certainly has in
the very limited area of smart phones and tablets.

So, what about those accessible washing machines?  Any ideas?

Phil

-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Paul Porter
Sent: 24 July 2017 17:10
To: BCAB Discussion List
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly

Hi Jackie

It should be noted that Tvonics ceased to exist shortly after RNIB began
selling the product.

We had a great product which couldn't be developed. You seem to be
suggesting that RNIB caused the demise of Tvonics and this isn't the case.

I am as frustrated as everyone else regarding accessibility or otherwise of
tvs.

I can assure you that RNIB has been working to promote and improve
accessibility with companies over the years.

I can't go into details due to non disclosure agreements but we do care and
strive to make products accessible.

Unless there is legislation, it's difficult to force manufacturers to make
their products accessible.

I think built-in access is getting better and we've almost come to expect
it, and why shouldn't we.

I recently purchased the latest Amazon Fire 8 and was able to set it up
without assistance.

Some companies just don't want to know. They probably think it costs too
much to make something accessible.

Paul


-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Jackie Brown
Sent: 24 July 2017 16:50
To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly

Yes, and if it comes to that, look what happened when RNIB got involved with
TVonics! This was a fantastic product for the short time it was available,
and most of us probably bought one.  But it didn't last long, and while Mo
can service existing boxes, it still remains the only recordable Freeview
box out there with accessibility at an affordable price.  The Portset Media
Centre is completely accessible, but it is very expensive.  All we are
asking for is for television sets to include TTS you can turn on and off
that let you access menus, EPG information and recording features without
struggling with apps.

Kind regards,

Jackie Brown
Email: Jackieannbrown62 at gmail.com
Check out my website: www.thebrownsplace.info Follow me on Twitter:
@thebrownsplace Skype name: thejackmate


-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Iain Lackie
Sent: 24 July 2017 13:52
To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly

In other words, don't hold your breath. And we're still waiting for ITV to
give us audio description on their iOS app. There's going to be a lot of
chipping away to come. 

Iain

On 24 Jul 2017, at 1:30 pm, John Paton <John.Paton at rnib.org.uk> wrote:

Hi Sean,

Freeview and Freeview Play are both accessed via standard TVs such as the
Samsung and Panasonic TVs. We work with manufacturers to help them make TVs
accessible. We work with the DTG (Digital Television Group) to create advice
on accessibility. We put pressure on Ofcom to put pressure on the industry.
We suggested to Ofcom that service providers such as Freeview could place
accessibility as a prerequisite for being allowed to access the EPG
services. 

Almost all of the industry responses to Ofcom's consultation on accessible
EPGs were marked as confidential but those that we could see were vehemently
against Ofcom's proposal for mandated accessibility (and the proposal was
only for receivers that had recording capability). The Equality Act doesn't
apply to TVs so we cannot force manufacturers to make them accessible. Ofcom
does however have some leverage with their EPG code and we'll continue to
work with them in their next consultation to try to bring that leverage to
bear on the industry. 

This is not be an easy problem to solve but we'll continue to work on it
because we know it is important. It was by chipping away at the problem that
we convinced Panasonic and TVonics to create talking TV equipment and it
will likely be by chipping away that we get the next talking TVs on the
market. 

Best regards,

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Sean Randall
Sent: 24 July 2017 12:40
To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly

I'd like to know why the RNIB aren't pushing for better Freeview and
Freeview play access, though? Why go for Sky and VM, both of whom are the
higher end of the spectrum in terms of cost? I'm not saying miss them out,
but where's the focus on the lowest common denominator? Why should those of
us who just want to record normal, free-to-air TV be forced into using
expensive large-screen TVs or defunct boxes. It's 2017 now, why aren't we
seeing built-in TTS in all the new Freeview and Freesat receivers as we do
high contrast?

S.

__
Sean Randall
IT and Accessibility Specialist
Email Contact at SeanRandall.me
Phone +44 (0) 1905 692280
Or visit My LinkedIn Profile for my blog posts, areas of interest and
qualifications at http://UK.LinkedIn.com/in/AccessibleSean

-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Tom Reid
Sent: Monday 24 July 2017 12:33 PM
To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly

Hi folks, thanks for views. John, thanks for your more detailed comments on
accessibility. It's clearly a general problem, Tom

--
To find out more about BCAB and the benefits that membership can bring,
please visit our website: https://www.bcab.org.uk/ Manage your subscription
by logging in with your BCAB account details at :
https://www.bcab.org.uk/user_mailman_register
Access the publicly searchable list archives at:
https://lists.bcab.org.uk/pipermail/bcab/
To discuss matters relating to the mailing list, please email:
moderator at bcab.org.uk.


--
To find out more about BCAB and the benefits that membership can bring,
please visit our website: https://www.bcab.org.uk/ Manage your subscription
by logging in with your BCAB account details at :
https://www.bcab.org.uk/user_mailman_register
Access the publicly searchable list archives at:
https://lists.bcab.org.uk/pipermail/bcab/
To discuss matters relating to the mailing list, please email:
moderator at bcab.org.uk.
--
Can you spot the difference between the four types of white cane? Watch six
blind or partially sighted people explain the cane and share our video using
#HowISee rnib.org.uk/cane-explained (http://www.rnib.org.uk/cane-explained)
--


DISCLAIMER:


NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments is
confidential and may be privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient
you should not use, disclose, distribute or copy any of the content of it or
of any attachment; you are requested to notify the sender immediately of
your receipt of the email and then to delete it and any attachments from
your system.

RNIB endeavours to ensure that emails and any attachments generated by its
staff are free from viruses or other contaminants.  However, it cannot
accept any responsibility for any  such which are transmitted.

We therefore recommend you scan all attachments.

Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email and any
attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those
of RNIB.

RNIB Registered Charity Number: 226227

Website: https://www.rnib.org.uk <https://www.rnib.org.uk>


--
To find out more about BCAB and the benefits that membership can bring,
please visit our website: https://www.bcab.org.uk/ Manage your subscription
by logging in with your BCAB account details at :
https://www.bcab.org.uk/user_mailman_register
Access the publicly searchable list archives at:
https://lists.bcab.org.uk/pipermail/bcab/
To discuss matters relating to the mailing list, please email:
moderator at bcab.org.uk.

--
To find out more about BCAB and the benefits that membership can bring,
please visit our website: https://www.bcab.org.uk/ Manage your subscription
by logging in with your BCAB account details at :
https://www.bcab.org.uk/user_mailman_register
Access the publicly searchable list archives at:
https://lists.bcab.org.uk/pipermail/bcab/
To discuss matters relating to the mailing list, please email:
moderator at bcab.org.uk.


--
To find out more about BCAB and the benefits that membership can bring,
please visit our website: https://www.bcab.org.uk/ Manage your subscription
by logging in with your BCAB account details at :
https://www.bcab.org.uk/user_mailman_register
Access the publicly searchable list archives at:
https://lists.bcab.org.uk/pipermail/bcab/
To discuss matters relating to the mailing list, please email:
moderator at bcab.org.uk.
--
Can you spot the difference between the four types of white cane? Watch six
blind or partially sighted people explain the cane and share our video using
#HowISee rnib.org.uk/cane-explained (http://www.rnib.org.uk/cane-explained)
--

 
DISCLAIMER:

 
NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments is
confidential and may be privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient
you should not use, disclose, distribute or copy any of the content of it or
of any attachment; you are requested to notify the sender immediately of
your receipt of the email and then to delete it and any attachments from
your system.

RNIB endeavours to ensure that emails and any attachments generated by its
staff are free from viruses or other contaminants.  However, it cannot
accept any responsibility for any  such which are transmitted.

We therefore recommend you scan all attachments.

Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email and any
attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those
of RNIB.

RNIB Registered Charity Number: 226227

Website: https://www.rnib.org.uk <https://www.rnib.org.uk>


--
To find out more about BCAB and the benefits that membership can bring,
please visit our website: https://www.bcab.org.uk/ Manage your subscription
by logging in with your BCAB account details at :
https://www.bcab.org.uk/user_mailman_register
Access the publicly searchable list archives at:
https://lists.bcab.org.uk/pipermail/bcab/
To discuss matters relating to the mailing list, please email:
moderator at bcab.org.uk.


-- 
To find out more about BCAB and the benefits that membership can bring,
please visit our website: https://www.bcab.org.uk/
Manage your subscription by logging in with your BCAB account details at :
https://www.bcab.org.uk/user_mailman_register
Access the publicly searchable list archives at:
https://lists.bcab.org.uk/pipermail/bcab/
To discuss matters relating to the mailing list, please email:
moderator at bcab.org.uk.
--
Can you spot the difference between the four types of white cane? Watch six
blind or partially sighted people explain the cane and share our video using
#HowISee rnib.org.uk/cane-explained (http://www.rnib.org.uk/cane-explained)
--

 
DISCLAIMER:

 
NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments is
confidential and may be privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient
you should not use, disclose, distribute or copy any of the content of it or
of any attachment; you are requested to notify the sender immediately of
your receipt of the email and then to delete it and any attachments from
your system.

RNIB endeavours to ensure that emails and any attachments generated by its
staff are free from viruses or other contaminants.  However, it cannot
accept any responsibility for any  such which are transmitted.

We therefore recommend you scan all attachments.

Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email and any
attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those
of RNIB.

RNIB Registered Charity Number: 226227

Website: https://www.rnib.org.uk <https://www.rnib.org.uk>


-- 
To find out more about BCAB and the benefits that membership can bring,
please visit our website: https://www.bcab.org.uk/
Manage your subscription by logging in with your BCAB account details at :
https://www.bcab.org.uk/user_mailman_register
Access the publicly searchable list archives at:
https://lists.bcab.org.uk/pipermail/bcab/
To discuss matters relating to the mailing list, please email:
moderator at bcab.org.uk.


-- 
To find out more about BCAB and the benefits that membership can bring,
please visit our website: https://www.bcab.org.uk/
Manage your subscription by logging in with your BCAB account details at :
https://www.bcab.org.uk/user_mailman_register
Access the publicly searchable list archives at:
https://lists.bcab.org.uk/pipermail/bcab/
To discuss matters relating to the mailing list, please email:
moderator at bcab.org.uk.




More information about the Bcab mailing list