[BCAB] accessible home appliance

Agent Orange agentorange at talktalk.net
Wed Jul 26 10:10:28 BST 2017


For info, and as an illustration (if one were needed) of how quickly models move on, the accessible LG washing machine Tom mentioned yesterday, model F14B8QDA, has already been discontinued despite only having been purchased by Tom in 2015.  See this link from the LG website:

http://www.lg.com/uk/washing-machines/lg-F14B8QDA

Let's open the net as wide as possible here - If anyone else knows of a single model of washing machine, which is accessible via tactile controls and bleeps, which is still available for purchase, please could you let the list know.

RNIB, we are looking at you too.

Thanks

Phil


-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of tom.reid21
Sent: 25 July 2017 19:45
To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible home appliance

Hi Phil, lg washing machine machine F14B8QDA, Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Agent Orange via Bcab
Sent: 25 July 2017 13:36
To: 'BCAB Discussion List' <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Cc: Agent Orange <agentorange at talktalk.net>
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible home appliance


Tom, do you have a model number for it?

Phil


-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of tom.reid21
Sent: 25 July 2017 13:33
To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible home appliance

I got the LG machine in 2015. I'm not pushing their stuff, but, it has no touch screen and most buttons have got sound. The rotating dial beeps at each turn.

Tom 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of tom.reid21
Sent: 25 July 2017 12:19
To: 'BCAB Discussion List' <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible home appliance

Hi Gena,

I've got an LG washing machine that makes sounds when you press its buttons. You can't hear what temperature it's at. However,  Plenty useable enough and you don't need to stick to one programme though number 4 has done me fine for donkeys.

Tom

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Georgina Joyce
Sent: 25 July 2017 11:35
To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible home appliance

Hello all,

I agree I would love an accessible washing machine. I think it is disingenuous to argue that we as blind people should only want to use 1 or 2 programs of a washing machine. I recently investigated switching from my lovely gas oven to a electric. I was surprised that the RNIB point us to Thomas Pocklington for a guide. I post a dropbox link below should anyone want to grab a copy of the guide for electric cooking.

As for washing machines I couldn’t find any that were accessible in a large Curry’s store here in Preston. The most hopeful was Samsung that were more expensive than the Hotpoint / Indesit washers that were now flat panelled.

I remember when RNIB adapted typewriters and then worked with Bejam who created a braille control panel. That microwave lasted me years. With the renewed interest in braille it would be nice if this older form of accessibility was revisited.

Electric cooking guide July 2017:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qcl1228jdv0a14h/Rica%20Cookers%20%28Word%20LP%29.docx?dl=0 <https://www.dropbox.com/s/qcl1228jdv0a14h/Rica%20Cookers%20(Word%20LP).docx?dl=0>

Regards,

Gena


> On 25 Jul 2017, at 11:01, dennis huckle <muir1918 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Totally agree With Jackie,
> In the past, as I know well, r.n.i.b. were at the fore-front in either 
> persuading manufacturers to provide some kind of guidance for products 
> like cookers and washing machines, or When we had a workshop, making 
> adaptations if required by customers.
> Kind regards,
> Dennis huckle.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Jackie 
> Brown
> Sent: 25 July 2017 10:53
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List' <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible home appliance
> 
> Hi John
> 
> I would take issue with lack of interest in a talking washing-machine, 
> we would have one in a heartbeat if it could tell us the different 
> programmes, spins and temperatures etc.  We are stuck with using only 
> one or two programmes because we simply don't have the choice that sighted people have.
> I think using bump-ons is a bit of a cop-out as well, though I agree 
> marking your appliance with something like those is the only way 
> sometimes.  But I do think RNIB should be pushing manufacturers to 
> make their white goods more accessible.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Jackie Brown
> Email: Jackieannbrown62 at gmail.com
> Check out my website: www.thebrownsplace.info Follow me on Twitter:
> @thebrownsplace Skype name: thejackmate
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of John 
> Paton
> Sent: 25 July 2017 10:43
> To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible home appliance
> 
> Hi Phil,
> 
> I would agree that if expanded out to all white goods the trend is 
> towards touchpanels and touchscreens but in this case the lower end of 
> the market is, so far, retaining physical controls. We haven't seen a 
> lot of demand for talking washing machines. As a particular example 
> most people have one or two cycles they use on their washing machine 
> and this is easily marked out by bump-ons. Adding speech to a washing 
> machine will increase the cost and if I'm honest I would expect most 
> people with sight loss would rather pay a much smaller price for a 
> pack of bump-ons. If we hear otherwise or if we see an opportunity to 
> bring down the cost of speech enabled white goods then we'll get involved.
> 
> We are keeping an eye on the white goods industry to check whether we 
> need to step in and start working in this area. The last time we 
> checked there was still a selection of accessible (or accessible with
> bump-ons) devices on the market.
> 
> I hope that helps,
> 
> John
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Agent 
> Orange via Bcab
> Sent: 25 July 2017 10:13
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
> Cc: Agent Orange
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible home appliance
> 
> 
> Paul, John P and others,
> 
> Drawing on your experience working in Tech at RNIB, what could you 
> suggest for someone who wants a kitchen appliance that is accessible.
> A washing machine for example.  By accessible, I do not mean having to 
> hook up a top priced machine to the internet and using a smartphone and app to control it.
> I mean accessible in a stand-alone, built-in sense.  One where a blind 
> person can set it up, operate it and receive spoken feedback from the 
> appliance itself.
> 
> It was Paul's comment that built-in access is getting better that 
> prompts me to ask this, as this observation strikes me as being rather sweeping.
> 
> Sure, built-in access  has vastly improved for some sub-categories of 
> device such as smart phones and tablets, but it has got immeasurably 
> worse in many more categories.  For instance, the move away from 
> simple buttons and knobs to provide physical control and simple LEDs 
> and beeps to provide feedback, which are rapidly being replaced with 
> touch screen or touch sensitive panels which provide both the 
> mechanism of control and feedback but which are inherently 
> inaccessible if you are blind.  This trend is happening right across 
> the spectrum of consumer electronics from music systems and hi fi, to kitchen appliances and white goods, and beyond.
> 
> Plus of course the move towards requiring use of apps to control 
> devices, which is not accessibility in any real sense for an awful lot 
> of people except those with the financial and technical ability to play.
> 
> So I would challenge the notion that generally speaking built in 
> accessibility is improving, though I would accept that it certainly 
> has in the very limited area of smart phones and tablets.
> 
> So, what about those accessible washing machines?  Any ideas?
> 
> Phil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Paul 
> Porter
> Sent: 24 July 2017 17:10
> To: BCAB Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly
> 
> Hi Jackie
> 
> It should be noted that Tvonics ceased to exist shortly after RNIB 
> began selling the product.
> 
> We had a great product which couldn't be developed. You seem to be 
> suggesting that RNIB caused the demise of Tvonics and this isn't the case.
> 
> I am as frustrated as everyone else regarding accessibility or 
> otherwise of tvs.
> 
> I can assure you that RNIB has been working to promote and improve 
> accessibility with companies over the years.
> 
> I can't go into details due to non disclosure agreements but we do 
> care and strive to make products accessible.
> 
> Unless there is legislation, it's difficult to force manufacturers to 
> make their products accessible.
> 
> I think built-in access is getting better and we've almost come to 
> expect it, and why shouldn't we.
> 
> I recently purchased the latest Amazon Fire 8 and was able to set it 
> up without assistance.
> 
> Some companies just don't want to know. They probably think it costs 
> too much to make something accessible.
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Jackie 
> Brown
> Sent: 24 July 2017 16:50
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly
> 
> Yes, and if it comes to that, look what happened when RNIB got 
> involved with TVonics! This was a fantastic product for the short time 
> it was available, and most of us probably bought one.  But it didn't 
> last long, and while Mo can service existing boxes, it still remains 
> the only recordable Freeview box out there with accessibility at an 
> affordable price.  The Portset Media Centre is completely accessible, 
> but it is very expensive.  All we are asking for is for television 
> sets to include TTS you can turn on and off that let you access menus, 
> EPG information and recording features without struggling with apps.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Jackie Brown
> Email: Jackieannbrown62 at gmail.com
> Check out my website: www.thebrownsplace.info Follow me on Twitter:
> @thebrownsplace Skype name: thejackmate
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Iain 
> Lackie
> Sent: 24 July 2017 13:52
> To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly
> 
> In other words, don't hold your breath. And we're still waiting for 
> ITV to give us audio description on their iOS app. There's going to be 
> a lot of chipping away to come.
> 
> Iain
> 
> On 24 Jul 2017, at 1:30 pm, John Paton <John.Paton at rnib.org.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hi Sean,
> 
> Freeview and Freeview Play are both accessed via standard TVs such as 
> the Samsung and Panasonic TVs. We work with manufacturers to help them 
> make TVs accessible. We work with the DTG (Digital Television Group) 
> to create advice on accessibility. We put pressure on Ofcom to put pressure on the industry.
> We suggested to Ofcom that service providers such as Freeview could 
> place accessibility as a prerequisite for being allowed to access the 
> EPG services.
> 
> Almost all of the industry responses to Ofcom's consultation on 
> accessible EPGs were marked as confidential but those that we could 
> see were vehemently against Ofcom's proposal for mandated 
> accessibility (and the proposal was only for receivers that had 
> recording capability). The Equality Act doesn't apply to TVs so we 
> cannot force manufacturers to make them accessible. Ofcom does however 
> have some leverage with their EPG code and we'll continue to work with 
> them in their next consultation to try to bring that leverage to bear on the industry.
> 
> This is not be an easy problem to solve but we'll continue to work on 
> it because we know it is important. It was by chipping away at the 
> problem that we convinced Panasonic and TVonics to create talking TV 
> equipment and it will likely be by chipping away that we get the next 
> talking TVs on the market.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> John
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Sean 
> Randall
> Sent: 24 July 2017 12:40
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly
> 
> I'd like to know why the RNIB aren't pushing for better Freeview and 
> Freeview play access, though? Why go for Sky and VM, both of whom are 
> the higher end of the spectrum in terms of cost? I'm not saying miss 
> them out, but where's the focus on the lowest common denominator? Why 
> should those of us who just want to record normal, free-to-air TV be 
> forced into using expensive large-screen TVs or defunct boxes. It's
> 2017 now, why aren't we seeing built-in TTS in all the new Freeview 
> and Freesat receivers as we do high contrast?
> 
> S.
> 
> __
> Sean Randall
> IT and Accessibility Specialist
> Email Contact at SeanRandall.me
> Phone +44 (0) 1905 692280
> Or visit My LinkedIn Profile for my blog posts, areas of interest and 
> qualifications at http://UK.LinkedIn.com/in/AccessibleSean
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Tom 
> Reid
> Sent: Monday 24 July 2017 12:33 PM
> To: 'BCAB Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] accessible telly
> 
> Hi folks, thanks for views. John, thanks for your more detailed 
> comments on accessibility. It's clearly a general problem, Tom
> 
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