[BCAB] Follow up on KeePass

Georgina Joyce gena at gena-j.me.uk
Wed Nov 22 21:43:09 GMT 2017


Hello Steve,

I guess you are right. We all state that we adhere to certain principles but behave  differently. Responding emotionally rather than logically. I certainly understand that in the working environment you have to do that what makes you most productive. People like NVDA Access and your good self show that we as blind people can do things for ourselves and that is good. Keep up the good work.

Regards,

Gena
Braille is a reading and writing language that all blind people should learn to use.

Michael Hingson 2011.

> On 22 Nov 2017, at 21:28, Steve Nutt <steve at comproom.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hi Gena,
> 
> Usually, whether we like it or not, the customer would blame us anyway, not the manufacturer, unless we could prove conclusively that the manufacturer was at fault.
> 
> The big bad business eh, always out for ripping the customer off. <Smile>.
> 
> All the best
> 
> Steve
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of Georgina Joyce
> Sent: 22 November 2017 20:31
> To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] Follow up on KeePass
> 
> Hello Steve,
> 
> But you’ve stated it’s an Outlook issue. In addition, the number of developers interested in a screen reader are limited compared with that of a password manager. You could pay for a developer to generate a work around if you chose to do so. Or you could learn software development and fix it yourself. You don’t have that choice if Jaws hadn’t found the work around. Of course, Jaws developers won’t pass on the knowledge to NVDA. I wonder if they have reported it to Microsoft in detail if it affects Narrator. But there’s a commercial gain by having bugs in the Office suite so that you buy the new version that fixes such bugs.
> 
> I wonder about this fictional scenario, if you were to sell a faulty item unwittingly to me. Would you take responsibility or would you blame the manufacturer? From what your saying, I should blame you ignoring the fact that you had no knowledge of the fault nor any part of the manufacturing process. It’s an interesting philosophical point.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gena
> 
> “Blindness is not a handicap, it is something I have always lived with. The real handicap is the prejudices people have about blindness.”
> 
> Michael Hinson 2011
> 
>> On 22 Nov 2017, at 18:17, Steve Nutt <steve at comproom.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Gena,
>> 
>> Sometimes yes.  We've had this discussion though on the NVDA list.
>> 
>> People were talking about NVDA in the workplace and I said it wasn't viable, simply because fixes didn't get fixed quickly enough.
>> 
>> An example is Outlook 2016.  All you have to do is press Control-Y and then move down to another folder, and NVDA crashes in a big heap.  So does Narrator by the way, but JAWS, which is a paid for program have hacked around that MS bug already.
>> 
>> I couldn't use NVDA in the workplace, simply because I live in Outlook and this one particularly, the fix has been too slow coming.
>> 
>> I'm not saying it's NVAccess's fault, but when you pay for something, you do often get fixes quicker.  Just my view anyway.
>> 
>> Straying a bit from the topic, I know, but it illustrates where in this instance, open source has been slower to get a problem fixed.
>> 
>> All the best
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of 
>> Georgina Joyce
>> Sent: 22 November 2017 18:04
>> To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
>> Subject: Re: [BCAB] Follow up on KeePass
>> 
>> Hello Steve,
>> 
>> Yes, exactly. Tense my comments being about it being robust. This code is quite mature so such obvious weaknesses are been reported and fixed. As I’m sure you know. Open source software can be fixed by anyone and usually happens a lot faster, sometimes minutes, rather than waiting for the budget to fix bugs as in closed source products. Open source coders typically will write code that is easier to read so that other contributors can add to it. Where closed source developers can write their own style and don’t care if it is lacking comments and change logs.
>> 
>> All the best,
>> 
>> Gena
>> Braille is a reading and writing language that all blind people should learn to use.
>> 
>> Michael Hingson 2011.
>> 
>>> On 22 Nov 2017, at 11:46, Steve Nutt <steve at comproom.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> But being open source, anyone surely has access to the code and could write a hack for it without any reverse engineering?
>>> 
>>> I don't know.
>>> 
>>> All the best
>>> 
>>> Steve
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of 
>>> Georgina Joyce
>>> Sent: 22 November 2017 11:16
>>> To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
>>> Subject: Re: [BCAB] Follow up on KeePass
>>> 
>>> Hello Steve,
>>> 
>>> Yes, I do. Furthermore, I actually use LastPass too. However, I don’t think that there’s any harm in exploring other options. I heard the presentation and it reminded me of how people feel about such issues. It’s really great that BCAB did this to highlight the issues. Thanks for your contribution as it has shown users an alternative point of view and we must not be afraid of learning of our choices.
>>> 
>>> Sean’s argument of keeping it local is enhanced with news like today’s report that Uber details have been stolen. The sad things are with such reports are that we learn of them many months or years afterwards. Giving criminals a chance to proffer from such thefts. All we can do is to explore our options and take steps to protect the things that we have control over.
>>> 
>>> Of course, I automatically like KeePass because I personally like the open source model. This means that the integrity of it’s functions are rigorously tested and integrity is not influenced by financial interests.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Gena
>>> 
>>> Braille is a reading and writing language that all blind people should learn to use.
>>> 
>>> Michael Hingson 2011.
>>> 
>>>> On 22 Nov 2017, at 09:14, Steve Nutt <steve at comproom.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> You use Dropbox don't you?  It's pretty much the same now.
>>>> 
>>>> Also, unless you keep off-site backups, if you get a house fire, God forbid, then you've lost even your backups.
>>>> 
>>>> I wasn't saying my way is better, but Keypass isn't integrated enough for me.
>>>> 
>>>> All the best
>>>> 
>>>> Steve
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of 
>>>> Georgina Joyce
>>>> Sent: 21 November 2017 20:49
>>>> To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
>>>> Subject: Re: [BCAB] Follow up on KeePass
>>>> 
>>>> Hello Steve,
>>>> 
>>>> With a monthly subscription and your data on some computer somewhere in the universe.
>>>> 
>>>> Gena
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Gena
>>>> 
>>>> Georgina Joyce
>>>> Applied Psychologist
>>>> Training and Coaching.
>>>> Because individuals of groups matter!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 21 Nov 2017, at 20:43, Steve Nutt <steve at comproom.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I prefer 1Password for this.  Although it costs money, it is more cross platform and a bit less geeky.
>>>>> 
>>>>> All the best
>>>>> 
>>>>> Steve
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Bcab [mailto:bcab-bounces at lists.bcab.org.uk] On Behalf Of 
>>>>> Georgina Joyce
>>>>> Sent: 21 November 2017 20:29
>>>>> To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
>>>>> Subject: [BCAB] Follow up on KeePass
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Following Sean’s presentation last night on KeePass I thought I’d take a look at it in respect of the Mac and mobile devices.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’ve been trying to get it to work on my Mac running Sierra. It is 
>>>>> not for the fait hearted. But for me a nice challenge that I 
>>>>> haven’t succeeded yet. There is a mention of a Mac installer but it 
>>>>> hasn’t materialised as yet. Here’s what I’ve done so far for those 
>>>>> who like such things. Or take delight in my pain. <Giggles>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Installed MonoFrameWork for OS X.
>>>>> 
>>>>> As I use MacPorts I installed: xdotool and xsel.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now the web says that you can right click on the Windows executable and select open with and select other. The Mac wants me to point to a application rather than a runtime set of libraries. So I run from a terminal command line: “mono <absolute path>KeePass.exe” and it falls over.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anyway, I might have better luck another day.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have sent the Android app to a phone so will give that a spin.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Happy hacking!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Gena
>>>>> “Why not?”
>>>>> 
>>>>> Michael Hinson 2011
>>>>> 
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