[BCAB] Upgrading the orbit reader software

Ibrahim Gucukoglu igucukoglu at hotmail.com
Sat Mar 9 12:21:01 GMT 2019


Hi Terry.

The onus has to be as much on the customer as it does on the retailer in any case and no matter what you're buying.  Steve is absolutely correct when he talks about people doing their research; you wouldn't go ahead and spend 400, 4000 or more unless you knew that the product met your needs and in the case of a computer product was compatible with the systems you intended on using.

All the best, Ibrahim.

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Clasper via Bcab <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk> 
Sent: 09 March 2019 12:03
To: 'BCAB Discussion List' <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Cc: Terry Clasper <terry.clasper at btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [BCAB] Upgrading the orbit reader software

Come on, it's not as if the RNIB didn’t know that there were blind people who use other things other than a windows PC.
Indeed I worked in the industry, and was very proud to do so, but, having both worked for myself and several large AT companies I can promise you that every effort was always made to be honest in any marketing campaign.
This is not about anticipating the progressive and future needs of users, more about putting a marketing strategy in place that enthusiastically and honestly gave people the information they would need to purchase a product that could work for them.
Sure, if at the time the product was released the mac was not accessible to blind people you'd have a point, but, it was, so I'm really not sure of the validity but by all means laugh away!
It doesn’t alter the facts!

-----Original Message-----
From: Ibrahim Gucukoglu <igucukoglu at hotmail.com>
Sent: 09 March 2019 11:34
To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [BCAB] Upgrading the orbit reader software

Hi Terry.

Irresponsible marketing?  I'm sorry but I have to laugh.  How could RNIB or indeed any organisation or product developer anticipate the needs of every possible user and computer configuration.  You used to work in the IT industry did you not supplying products working on the Windows platform with JAWS and Dragon?  You must have handled dozens of computer configurations and setups in your time and inevitably some of those customers just couldn't use your products for one reason or another.  Based on what you're saying then, I should expect RNIB to tell me - and the developers to support - users of Linux just because a handful of blind braillests use this.

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Clasper via Bcab <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Sent: 09 March 2019 11:19
To: 'BCAB Discussion List' <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Cc: Terry Clasper <terry.clasper at btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [BCAB] Upgrading the orbit reader software

Yes, but that's not the point here!
 I'm sure there will be lots of people who, when all of the initial noise was been made about the product, purchased one, without the knowledge that when an upgrade became available if they didn’t have a Windows PC they wouldn’t be able to install it!
So, my point is, that if indeed as part of there very vocal marketing campaign the RNIB as the UK product reseller didn’t make this clear, in the context of irresponsible marketing, effected customers should be granted a refund no matter the point of purchase.


-----Original Message-----
From: Eleanor Martha Burke <eleanormarthaburke at gmail.com>
Sent: 09 March 2019 11:11
To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [BCAB] Upgrading the orbit reader software

as I understand it Henry, there is a period, possibly 14 days, in which one can return the product for a total refund. certainly in my own case, I would have read instructions in that 14 days.

https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.justgiving.com%2FEleanor-Burke-Aniridia&data=02%7C01%7C%7C28012b4b9ad441d6305d08d6a4874838%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636877298273186571&sdata=psCTNmJzqnld0o15MarTCDWUQy6uLS5yBRAdr2gjNf0%3D&reserved=0

> On 9 Mar 2019, at 11:07, <henry at henryandangela.co.uk> <henry at henryandangela.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Eleanor
> Normally, a product has to be purchased before accessing the instructions?  If there are limitations on a product then surely these should have been highlighted during the sales process?
> Best wishes
> Henry
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eleanor Martha Burke <eleanormarthaburke at gmail.com>
> Sent: 09 March 2019 10:37
> To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [BCAB] Upgrading the orbit reader software
> 
> I take your point Andy,  but legally the argument would be that it was written in the instruction booklet. without side tracking what are the updates hoping to achieve?
> 
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.j
> ustgiving.com%2FEleanor-Burke-Aniridia&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6ce5d58a4
> 22440ce076a08d6a4811f5a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
> 36877271808701541&sdata=mB4l%2BVMRNVL8j42Yqv8eouSfKohjNU%2F2JaGFgt
> NajbM%3D&reserved=0
> 
>> On 9 Mar 2019, at 10:32, Andy Collins via Bcab <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Eleanor – I consider that just to be a loophole! It doesn’t make it acceptable, and it doesn’t alter the attitude of his reply. For the are N I B to bring a product to market in this way, without openly at knowledge in the limitation, or indicating a plan to rectify it, is not to my mind at all acceptable. And then to almost dismiss the upgrades in an offhand way as not being very important, implies a careless and offhand dismissive attitude in my opinion.
>> Andy Collins
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 9 Mar 2019, at 9:46 am, Eleanor Martha Burke <eleanormarthaburke at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> but surely in Paul's defence, if that is written in the instruction manual, then you should have read that. if the product was sold with upgrades only in windows, then nobody was misled if that is written in the instruction manual. you would then have had the right to return the machine as unsuitable.
>>> 
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>>> 
>>>> On 9 Mar 2019, at 09:43, Andy Collins via Bcab <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Paul Porter’s messages alarming! How can that even be considered acceptable when selling a device that comes with upgrades available but only to those with Windows machines! This is mis-selling! And it’s on the RNIB‘s shoulders to do something about it so that we’re all on a level playing field! Paul I’m sorry but you can’t get away with this, it is not acceptable and it’s just another example of RNIB‘s arrogance! To try and make it acceptable by saying upgrades are usually only minor is an absolute insult to the customer. I’m writing this as a strong message because it’s how I feel, and RNIB deserves all the bashing it gets because this is all too regularly it’s attitude to its customers!
>>>> Andy Collins
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On 9 Mar 2019, at 8:52 am, Life in Six Dots <hello at lifeinsixdots.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have the same problem. I'm thinking about installing Windows 10 via BootCamp so I can perform the update as I occasionally experience random pins either popping up when they shouldn't or not popping up when they should. It's minor but does frustrate me at times.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best regards, Paul
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 08/03/2019, 22:20, "James Gallagher" <James at DeafBlind.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi I’m in the same situation as you are i am a Mac user have no window computers whatsoever unable to upgrade my orbit to the new update.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Was quite surprised at this as well Andy Yours James
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 8 Mar 2019, at 22:17, Paul Porter <Paul.Porter at rnib.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Andy
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You can only upgrade using Windows at the moment.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The upgrade procedure is outlined in the user manual.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Updates tend to be pretty minor.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Paul Porter
>>>>>> RNIB Digital Transformation Manager
>>>>>> Mob: 07540 706051Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 8 Mar 2019, at 22:01, Andy Collins via Bcab <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk<mailto:bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I understand there is a software version upgrade for the Braille orbit reader, but all my research points to the requirements of a PC running Windows, whereas I only have access to a Mac! I can’t see how a Windows only machine upgrade would be acceptable, so if somebody could direct me as to where to look to download the upgrade onto a Mac I’ll be grateful; unless of course it is windows only, in which case I would feel extremely annoyed having not had this pointed out to me at the point of purchase.
>>>>>> Andy Collins
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
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