[BCAB] SUPREME COURT CASE

Steve Nutt steve at comproom.co.uk
Fri Oct 11 11:15:55 BST 2019


Hi Steve,

And the fact that web developers have to go out of their way to get educated
about accessibility is difficult.  We need web dev tools that alert you to
inaccessibility issues at development stage.  If you then choose to ignore
them, that's your lookout, but even WordPress, could do better with this.
35 percent of all web sites are hosted on WordPress, I read somewhere, but
it doesn't warn you if something may be inaccessible, or if you leave out
some alt text for example.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Green <steve.green at testpartners.co.uk> 
Sent: 10 October 2019 00:18
To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [BCAB] SUPREME COURT CASE

There is blame at all levels in these companies. Senior management either
don't know their obligations or don't care. Senior technical staff don't
select the right people or implement the right practices and policies. The
skill of the average developer is appallingly low, and 50% of developers are
below average!

It's truly shocking that 20 years after WCAG was first published, most
developers don't have the faintest idea what it says, and they have no idea
how to build accessible websites.

However, I don't agree with some people in this forum insofar as it actually
is difficult and costly to build highly accessible websites. It takes
thousands of hours of study to become proficient, and someone has to pay for
that. You need more hardware and software, including licenses for all the
assistive technologies. Your choice of development platform is severely
limited and you won't be able to use technologies that everyone else uses to
boost productivity. You need to spend a whole lot more on technical testing
and user testing, which is expensive and delays the release of your
software. Even a short delay can be a huge risk in a competitive market.

And as technologies evolve, you have to keep learning and keep buying new
hardware and software, so it's a continuous addition to your overheads. None
of this is an excuse not to do it, but please don't pretend it's easy or
cheap because it isn't.

Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: George Bell <george at techno-vision.co.uk>
Sent: 09 October 2019 21:11
To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [BCAB] SUPREME COURT CASE

Having arrived to find our workshop flooded this morning, I'm just in the
right mood to  want to slam a brick though our local Dominos, never mind
never going there again for a pizza. At least boycotting them won't get me
locked up!

It is total BS that it is both difficult and costly to make web pages
accessible.

Moreover, what good does it do them, when those who use adaptive technology
through disability of one kind of the other, are unable to make purchases.
I suppose some dumb, stupid, self-opinionated, idiot in administration, paid
a 6 figure salary, is to blame.

I have even had questions from so called "dedicated web developers" who do
not even know how to label something as simple as a button.

It's little wonder their prices are so high when they can afford to pay
lawyer's rates rather than make an effort to attract more sales.

George

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Green <steve.green at testpartners.co.uk>
Sent: 09 October 2019 18:40
To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [BCAB] SUPREME COURT CASE

Dominos are doing exactly the same as Target did 15 years ago. It would be
much cheaper for them to fix the website than to try to defend an insanely
expensive law suit, but I believe their objective is to prevent a legal
precedent from being set. As such, it would not surprise me at all if other
large corporations are helping to fund the law suit because they will all be
in trouble if the precedent is set.

Barry said that Dominoes challenge is a call for definitive and clear
standards on digital accessibility that can only be good for equal access.
Unfortunately, that will never happen because the relevant factors vary so
much. Some assistive technologies are much better than others and some
people are much more proficient at using them. The severity of people's
disabilities varies greatly too. And web technologies are now so insanely
complex that the accessibility guidelines have had to become equally
complex.

The only way we could get definitive and clear standards on digital
accessibility is if we wind the clock back 25 years to when everything was a
whole lot simpler. Everything would be far more equal, but no one would be
better off.

Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd


-----Original Message-----
From: goshawk on horseback <goshawk_on_horseback at fastmail.co.uk>
Sent: 09 October 2019 17:16
To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [BCAB] SUPREME COURT CASE
Importance: High

trouble is, that not everyone is a top tech user, fully familiar with every
single navigation key or gesture, and every mode of navigation or reading.
to put it in the context of your message, the person able to use what ever
site/app/service in question, may be one of those, able to use that skill to
access it.
where as the other person who is not able to access it, may well be ok with
using tech, but doesn't quite have that super high skill level.
things need to be accessible in general, not just to those elite techies.

Simon


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve at comproom.co.uk>
To: "'BCAB Discussion List'" <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2019 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: [BCAB] SUPREME COURT CASE


Problem is, that accessibility and usability are two different things.  What
if that guy couldn't access it, but someone else could?  Is it accessible?
To him, no, but it doesn't mean it's not accessible, period.

It has to be proven conclusively that it really isn't accessible.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Eleanor Martha Burke <eleanormarthaburke at gmail.com>
Sent: 09 October 2019 13:54
To: BCAB Discussion List <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [BCAB] SUPREME COURT CASE

do you not think Barry that disabled people have the right to have equal
access? if we can't get it then we have to use the law.

http://www.justgiving.com/Eleanor-Burke-Aniridia

> On 9 Oct 2019, at 12:34, Barry Hill <barry.hill3 at sky.com> wrote:
>
> I'm glad that it was not heard by the Supreme Court, but I can 
> understand Dominoes stance.  There are lorry loads of ambulance-chaser 
> style lawyers popping up across America just to encourage disabled 
> people to sue companies who might be breaking the law out of ignorance 
> of what is specifically needed to make an app or website accessible.
> They are calling for a standard that organisations can use.  Oh, and 
> it's not over yet.  Dominoes are still going to fight it in lower courts.
Still, I doubt they will win.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Godfrey-McKay via Bcab <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 12:24 PM
> To: Members <bcab at lists.bcab.org.uk>
> Cc: lists.godfrey-mckay at virginmedia.com; 'Cindy Godfrey-McKay'
> <cindy at godfrey-mckay.co.uk>
> Subject: [BCAB] SUPREME COURT CASE
>
>
>
> HI,
>
> Thought some might find this of interest and encouraging!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Big Win for Digital Accessibility!
>
>
>
>
>
> On October 7, 2019 the United States Supreme Court rejected Domino's 
> request that the court take up the issue of website and mobile 
> accessibility.  This is great news for all who care about digital 
> inclusion and the rights of disabled people to fully participate in 
> the
digital world.
>
>
> <https://lflegal.us13.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c8f001aa20f9400bde
> 58e6bf d&id=9f6ad741e7&e=3715cff890> My post about the Supreme Court 
> announcement is here.
>
> With gratitude to everyone working to make the digital world 
> accessible,
>
>
> p.s.
> <http://us13.forward-to-friend.com/forward?u=c8f001aa20f9400bde58e6bfd
> &id=67 02e1ed9d&e=3715cff890> Forward this email to a friend
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lainey Feingold
> Law Office of Lainey Feingold
> Author,
> <https://lflegal.us13.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c8f001aa20f9400bde
> 58e6bf d&id=9b442e1d42&e=3715cff890> Structured Negotiation | A 
> Winning Alternative to Lawsuits
>
> <https://lflegal.us13.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c8f001aa20f9400bde
> 58e6bf d&id=d1948a3102&e=3715cff890> http://lflegal.com/
> 510.548.5062
> <mailto:LF at LFLegal.com> LF at LFLegal.com
>
> <https://lflegal.us13.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c8f001aa20f9400bde
> 58e6bf d&id=329bcfbcf0&e=3715cff890> Follow on Twitter
>
>
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Richard
>
> Richard Godfrey-McKay
>
> Telephone: 01738-445-880
>
> if you haven't called before you may be asked to identify yourself by 
> the Truecall call screening service
>
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>
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